Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Hmmm. I didn't realize we were not allowed to quote someone in a new topic from an old topic that had been closed, so I will take out the quotes, etc. and re-word. Sorry about that. So, this is just a general topic about repentance.
Some think that "Universalists" (man, I hate labels.) anyway... some do not understand the point of view of Universalists because they believe that SOME people will NOT repent, and therefore, how is it "fair" that they should also eventually have God's love encompass them and welcome them into "heaven". This is a flawed view. It is incorrect. I seek to correct this flawed view.
There is not a single human being EVER created who will "never repent".
If a person commits a horrible crime, say murder. God will eventually open this person's eyes, bring him to a place of repentance, and wrap His love around him, showing him that he is forgiven, and welcome him into His arms.
ALL will go through fire. ALL.
From the little old lady who volunteers all of her time to needy causes, to the murdererer who destroys a whole town.
ALL will repent.
God will be ALL in ALL.
Remember:
That at the name of Jesus every knee shall bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Peace.
Further...
"EVERY tongue shall CONFESS Jesus Christ is Lord, to the Glory of God the Father..."
If one person confesses that Jesus Christ is Lord, then said person is thrown into a pit of torture for all eternity, how would that possibly be "TO THE GLORY of God the Father" ???? It, of course, would not. God would receive NO glory from such a heinous act.
The MOST lost person ever created, finally understanding the love of God... and God seeing that person's knees FINALLY buckle under the weight of His (God's) love... and confessing "JESUS CHRIST IS LORD!", THAT is a glorious picture. THAT is what brings GLORY to God.
It's a beautiful, beautiful picture.
READ the PRODIGAL SON... AGAIN.
And AGAIN. God is trying to tell us something. Hint: "confession" is a word used for praise and is used in the Greek translation of the Old Testament for joyful praise. "to openly and joyfully recognize, celebrate and praise."
Let's read it again:
"ALL knees shall bow. EVERY... tongue shall openly and joyfully recognize, celebrate and praise that Jesus Christ is LORD!!!"
Isn't that amazing?
Isn't that "glad tidings of GREAT JOY!"? YES!
AMEN!
Hallelujah.
Our Father is the Good Shepherd.
Not one will be lost.
NO, NOT ONE.
Hmmm. I didn't realize we were not allowed to quote someone in a new topic from an old topic that had been closed, so I will take out the quotes, etc. and re-word. Sorry about that. So, this is just a general topic about repentance.
Some think that "Universalists" (man, I hate labels.) anyway... some do not understand the point of view of Universalists because they believe that SOME people will NOT repent, and therefore, how is it "fair" that they should also eventually have God's love encompass them and welcome them into "heaven". This is a flawed view. It is incorrect. I seek to correct this flawed view.
There is not a single human being EVER created who will "never repent".
If a person commits a horrible crime, say murder. God will eventually open this person's eyes, bring him to a place of repentance, and wrap His love around him, showing him that he is forgiven, and welcome him into His arms.
ALL will go through fire. ALL.
From the little old lady who volunteers all of her time to needy causes, to the murdererer who destroys a whole town.
ALL will repent.
God will be ALL in ALL.
Remember:
That at the name of Jesus every knee shall bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Peace.
Further...
"EVERY tongue shall CONFESS Jesus Christ is Lord, to the Glory of God the Father..."
If one person confesses that Jesus Christ is Lord, then said person is thrown into a pit of torture for all eternity, how would that possibly be "TO THE GLORY of God the Father" ???? It, of course, would not. God would receive NO glory from such a heinous act.
The MOST lost person ever created, finally understanding the love of God... and God seeing that person's knees FINALLY buckle under the weight of His (God's) love... and confessing "JESUS CHRIST IS LORD!", THAT is a glorious picture. THAT is what brings GLORY to God.
It's a beautiful, beautiful picture.
READ the PRODIGAL SON... AGAIN.
And AGAIN. God is trying to tell us something. Hint: "confession" is a word used for praise and is used in the Greek translation of the Old Testament for joyful praise. "to openly and joyfully recognize, celebrate and praise."
Let's read it again:
"ALL knees shall bow. EVERY... tongue shall openly and joyfully recognize, celebrate and praise that Jesus Christ is LORD!!!"
Isn't that amazing?
Isn't that "glad tidings of GREAT JOY!"? YES!
AMEN!
Hallelujah.
Our Father is the Good Shepherd.
Not one will be lost.
NO, NOT ONE.
Yes, .sparrow, to the glory of God the Father, all restored and all praising and worshipping Him! Our God is truly amazing, our God is truly amazing! God bless.
Demons believe in Jesus and know He is the Son of God, Lord of all... will they too also be reconciled in the last "age"?
As much as I would like to believe in universal reconciliation, that is not what the counsel of the Word of God tells us. Don't get me wrong, I've read all the verses and all the arguments in favor of this doctrine. I've read on my own as well. It doesn't hold water.
We are not forced to love God. Humans have never been forced to obey God. Love should never involve force. Yet that is what you advocate. You allow for "do overs" for those who reject Christ while here on Earth. That makes no sense. If one rejects Him now, with all the evidence that points to Him and reveals Him, God allows that. God loves us so much that he will allow us our hearts desire .. whether it is to be with him or apart from him.
My God is so big, so great, so glorious that when we eventually see Jesus in His glory, who would ever have the wherewithall to deny Him? Isn't that a form of compulsion? Isn't that a forcing of one to love him because there's no option to deny him? Where is the glory in forced love?
Where's the glory in your doctrine ... okay, one rejects Christ while here on Earth and so doesn't end up in "eternal torment" but just a "period of torment" until they eventually see the error of their ways and acknowledge Jesus as Christ. So they're punished until they accept God, however long that punishment takes. It's like spanking my child until he admits I'm right and he's wrong. That's your idea of love? That's your idea of not being forced into a relationship?
I don't admit to having all the answers. I'm not saying I do. I'm not saying I completely understand God's plan in this regard. I'm saying, after prayerful review of the entire counsel of scripture as it relates to this topic, I strongly disagree with this doctrine of universal reconciliation.
And that's all I'm saying. I'm not going to debate every last single verse, word, tense, meaning (implied or overt) about this topic. I just wanted to respectfully respond to your assertion and post my dissenting opinion.
Demons believe in Jesus and know He is the Son of God, Lord of all... will they too also be reconciled in the last "age"?
As much as I would like to believe in universal reconciliation, that is not what the counsel of the Word of God tells us. Don't get me wrong, I've read all the verses and all the arguments in favor of this doctrine. I've read on my own as well. It doesn't hold water.
We are not forced to love God. Humans have never been forced to obey God. Love should never involve force. Yet that is what you advocate. You allow for "do overs" for those who reject Christ while here on Earth. That makes no sense. If one rejects Him now, with all the evidence that points to Him and reveals Him, God allows that. God loves us so much that he will allow us our hearts desire .. whether it is to be with him or apart from him.
My God is so big, so great, so glorious that when we eventually see Jesus in His glory, who would ever have the wherewithall to deny Him? Isn't that a form of compulsion? Isn't that a forcing of one to love him because there's no option to deny him? Where is the glory in forced love?
Where's the glory in your doctrine ... okay, one rejects Christ while here on Earth and so doesn't end up in "eternal torment" but just a "period of torment" until they eventually see the error of their ways and acknowledge Jesus as Christ. So they're punished until they accept God, however long that punishment takes. It's like spanking my child until he admits I'm right and he's wrong. That's your idea of love? That's your idea of not being forced into a relationship?
I don't admit to having all the answers. I'm not saying I do. I'm not saying I completely understand God's plan in this regard. I'm saying, after prayerful review of the entire counsel of scripture as it relates to this topic, I strongly disagree with this doctrine of universal reconciliation.
And that's all I'm saying. I'm not going to debate every last single verse, word, tense, meaning (implied or overt) about this topic. I just wanted to respectfully respond to your assertion and post my dissenting opinion.
Carry on..
Thank you...mams! It is so refreshing to read this post and I praise the Lord Jesus for His Holy Spirit whom gives us discernment and protects us from the spirit of error, leading us always into God truth!
He will do this till the very end....He is faithful and never will leave us, nor forsake us! Hallelujah!!
Demons believe in Jesus and know He is the Son of God, Lord of all... will they too also be reconciled in the last "age"?
As much as I would like to believe in universal reconciliation, that is not what the counsel of the Word of God tells us. Don't get me wrong, I've read all the verses and all the arguments in favor of this doctrine. I've read on my own as well. It doesn't hold water.
We are not forced to love God. Humans have never been forced to obey God. Love should never involve force. Yet that is what you advocate. You allow for "do overs" for those who reject Christ while here on Earth. That makes no sense. If one rejects Him now, with all the evidence that points to Him and reveals Him, God allows that. God loves us so much that he will allow us our hearts desire .. whether it is to be with him or apart from him.
My God is so big, so great, so glorious that when we eventually see Jesus in His glory, who would ever have the wherewithall to deny Him? Isn't that a form of compulsion? Isn't that a forcing of one to love him because there's no option to deny him? Where is the glory in forced love?
Where's the glory in your doctrine ... okay, one rejects Christ while here on Earth and so doesn't end up in "eternal torment" but just a "period of torment" until they eventually see the error of their ways and acknowledge Jesus as Christ. So they're punished until they accept God, however long that punishment takes. It's like spanking my child until he admits I'm right and he's wrong. That's your idea of love? That's your idea of not being forced into a relationship?
I don't admit to having all the answers. I'm not saying I do. I'm not saying I completely understand God's plan in this regard. I'm saying, after prayerful review of the entire counsel of scripture as it relates to this topic, I strongly disagree with this doctrine of universal reconciliation.
And that's all I'm saying. I'm not going to debate every last single verse, word, tense, meaning (implied or overt) about this topic. I just wanted to respectfully respond to your assertion and post my dissenting opinion.
Carry on..
Love is not forced.I look at my wife and her character and can't help but love her, where is the force in that ?.
If i can love my wife so ,when my Lord is so much more lovlier how can anyone resist Him.
When i look into your Holiness
when i look into your lovliness
I worship you .
Demons believe in Jesus and know He is the Son of God, Lord of all... will they too also be reconciled in the last "age"?
As much as I would like to believe in universal reconciliation, that is not what the counsel of the Word of God tells us. Don't get me wrong, I've read all the verses and all the arguments in favor of this doctrine. I've read on my own as well. It doesn't hold water.
We are not forced to love God. Humans have never been forced to obey God. Love should never involve force. Yet that is what you advocate. You allow for "do overs" for those who reject Christ while here on Earth. That makes no sense. If one rejects Him now, with all the evidence that points to Him and reveals Him, God allows that. God loves us so much that he will allow us our hearts desire .. whether it is to be with him or apart from him.
My God is so big, so great, so glorious that when we eventually see Jesus in His glory, who would ever have the wherewithall to deny Him? Isn't that a form of compulsion? Isn't that a forcing of one to love him because there's no option to deny him? Where is the glory in forced love?
Where's the glory in your doctrine ... okay, one rejects Christ while here on Earth and so doesn't end up in "eternal torment" but just a "period of torment" until they eventually see the error of their ways and acknowledge Jesus as Christ. So they're punished until they accept God, however long that punishment takes. It's like spanking my child until he admits I'm right and he's wrong. That's your idea of love? That's your idea of not being forced into a relationship?
I don't admit to having all the answers. I'm not saying I do. I'm not saying I completely understand God's plan in this regard. I'm saying, after prayerful review of the entire counsel of scripture as it relates to this topic, I strongly disagree with this doctrine of universal reconciliation.
And that's all I'm saying. I'm not going to debate every last single verse, word, tense, meaning (implied or overt) about this topic. I just wanted to respectfully respond to your assertion and post my dissenting opinion.
Carry on..
Mams, is your idea of love eternally tormenting someone because they did not love you in return, especially seeing that this would be the situation before you created them? I don't believe that people will be forced to love God against their wills, but I do see love as a kind of force that will win all hearts to God. They will be changed by the power of love. All will see, understand, believe, and submit to Him. I believe that God will subject all to Himself so that He may be all in all. (1 Corinthians 15) This subjection will involve voluntary submission to the Lord (same word that is used to described the subjection of the Son to the Father) who will remove all blinders and binders. The scriptures teach that every knee is going to bow and every tongue is going to confess Him. There will be no one who will not do this. The word for "bow" is kampto and is bowing done in religious worship/veneration and this confess involves praise. As for correction, parents discipline their children to teach them right from wrong, to influence their wills for good. If parents did not do this, would this an indication of love? All through the scriptures God disciplines, punishes, and corrects. He did it for His chosen people and He did it for those who were not His chosen people. There is a presence and a purpose for God's judgments. The writer of Hebrews tells believers that if we are without discipline, then we are illegitimate children of God and not sons. And it tells us that God disciplines us that we may share His holiness. He is making mankind into His own image and He does not need our permission. All are His offspring and the scriptures tell us that when His judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants will learn righteousness. It is not wrong for God to teach, correct, mold, shape, transform us, His creatures into what He in His goodness and love wills for us to be. The wonderful thing is that God is said to be love, agape, and agape love does what is best for the one who is love. The discipline, correction, and whatever torment/testing is involved in becoming transformed into His image is for our benefit. God bless.
Psalms 68:18
You have ascended on high, You have led captive Your captives;
You have received gifts among men,
Even among the rebellious also, that the LORD God may dwell there
Isaiah 25:6-8 The LORD of hostswill prepare a lavish banquet for all peoples on this mountain;
A banquet of aged wine, choice pieces with marrow,
And refined, aged wine.
7. And on this mountain He will swallow up the covering which is over all peoples,
Even the veil which is stretched over all nations.
8. Hewill swallow up death for all time,
And the Lord GODwill wipe tears away from all faces,
And He will remove the reproach of His people from all the earth; For the LORD has spoken.
Isaiah 45:22-25
"Turn to Me and be saved, all the ends of the earth;
For I am God, and there is no other.
23. "I have sworn by Myself, The word has gone forth from My mouth in righteousness And will not turn back,
That to Me every knee will bow, every tongue will swear allegiance.
24. "They will say of Me, `Only in the LORD are righteousness and strength.'
Men will come to Him,
And all who were angry at Him will be put to shame.
25. "In the LORD all the offspring of Israel
Will be justified and will glory."
Zephaniah 3
8 "Therefore wait for Me," declares the LORD,
"For the day when I rise up as a witness.
Indeed, My decision is to gather nations, To assemble kingdoms, To pour out on them My indignation,
All My burning anger;
For all the earth will be devoured
By the fire of My zeal.
9. "For then I will give to the peoples purified lips,
That all of them may call on the name of the LORD,
To serve Him shoulder to shoulder
Hebrews 1: 1In many parts, and many ways, God of old having spoken to the fathers in the prophets, 2in these last days did speak to us in a Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He did make the ages;
God bless.
Last edited by ShanaBrown; 05-28-2009 at 10:03 PM..
I believe God is love and that love is greater than we can fathom but it is not our Americanized version of love. A perception of love that is wimpish and flat. You think that Gods glory is only in loving people until they finally buckle and confess he is god....to their salvation you suppose. From this notion alone and a many versus twisted and contorted to agree you say that noone can or will be lost eternally...which contradicts much of what Christ taught. What was he saying when he said it is better to pluck out your eyes than to lose your body in hell forever.
Why all the fear based tactics? Why all the threats? Why did he go to the cross despite his repeated request not too?
It is because when somone is lost from God forever it means forever. The love of God is gained by yeilding yes...but to say everyone will yield? You are assuming they will be given chances in another life to work out that repentance. (?) The life is in the blood...once your dead...your life with your choices is gone..you are subject to your irreparable destiny...either you are his or you are not. Its pretty simple. Because God is love doesn't make him evil to not allow evil in his presence. It just further enhances his personality to include other dynamics besides love. I like what someone once said, "God is love but love is not God"
that is so true...we are living in a time called GRACE....it is easy to think that all God is is grace....to everyone everytime everywhere ...but it is during this time that we can find Grace and Mercy to attain what was unattainable by works of righteousness. This period will end and then we will see another manifestation of God...or of Love if you will...LOVE protects....love saves...love cleanses...love delivers...love will not allow evil to inhabit eternity.
God is merciful and just...so noone who is lost will think they are unrighteously lost...they will see clearly how just it is...they will get that the grace necessary was not what they sought. That they were not interested and are now illequipped to live forever. They would not presume to inject their disease into heavens culture.
I think that bodies are made for hells waiting place....that are suitable...and that when hell is cast into the lake of fire it is destroyed forever. I believe there will be an end. Even this is supposition from certain supporting texts...but i would never go so far as to call Christ a liar or misleader of men. Which is precisely what you are doing? I think it is irresponsible to say there is no eternal punishment for a life of sin. Or to say that you can not resist Gods love...it is resistable. He is resistable...
LOVE protects....love saves...love cleanses...love delivers...love will not allow evil to inhabit eternity.
Amen.
Hi, God is love and love never fails. (1 Corinthians 15) and He is able to subdue all things to Himself, all things, Philippians 3:21. All things means nothing is excluded, even all hearts. Evil will not be able to inhabit eternity. God will abolish all rule, power, and authority including evil's. Saying that people can rest God forever suggests that evil is greater than good, that it will exist for all of eterity in an eternal hell, that the intentions of God for the creation can be defeated, yet Romans 9 tells me that no one can resist His intention. It was His good pleasure to reconcile all to Himself. (Colossians 1). God bless.
Romans 8:18-22
18. For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed to us.19. For the anxious longing of the creation waits eagerly for the revealing of the sons of God.20. For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it, in hope21. that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God.22. For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now.
1 Corinthians 15:16-28
16. For if the dead are not raised, not even Christ has been raised;17. and if Christ has not been raised, your faith is worthless; you are still in your sins.18. Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished.19. If we have hoped in Christ in this life only, we are of all men most to be pitied.20. But now Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who are asleep.21. For since by a man came death, by a man also came the resurrection of the dead.22. For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive.23. But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, after that those who are Christ's at His coming,24. then comes the end, when He hands over the kingdom to the God and Father, when He has abolished all rule and all authority and power.25. For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet.26. The last enemy that will be abolished is death.27. For He has put all things in subjection under His feet. But when He says, "All things are put in subjection," it is evident that He is excepted who put all things in subjection to Him.28. When all things are subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also will be subjected to the One who subjected all things to Him, so that God may be all in all.
Your taking verses that support Gods power to save to the uttermost those that are the called....those who he predestined. now that thought has merit. but to say that means everyone is ludacris. Those text don't say anything about all evil being reconciled to God...and reconcilliation could exclude cohabitation with God if he meant it that way. We are after all looking at english versions of greek versions of spirit language. Paul saw everything and was shown some things he could not speak of on earth. if what he saw was that everything was going to be reconciled than why go be beat up, ship wrecked, put in prison etc...for the gospel....for the call. He was motivated by love for God and souls....he knew that the gospel was what freed men from sins grip and hells rights to their souls...so he preached christ to all the world...tirelessly. I am afraid if the truth was not so dire he would not have created a example to desperate.
What say you?
Yes, .sparrow, to the glory of God the Father, all restored and all praising and worshipping Him! Our God is truly amazing, our God is truly amazing! God bless.
Dear Shana,
You know our views collide on this.
Nevertheless, I hope I'm wrong, and you guys are right.
(Notwithstanding the fire...ouch )
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
