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In Matthew 25, who do you suppose are the 10 virgins? Certainly, we can agree that a sinner cannot be a virgin. Of course not. These are 10 born again Christians, but only 5 will make the rapture to be Jesus' Bride; the other 5 are spewed out of His mouth into the tribulation period.
In Matthew 25, who do you suppose are the 10 virgins? Certainly, we can agree that a sinner cannot be a virgin. Of course not. These are 10 born again Christians, but only 5 will make the rapture to be Jesus' Bride; the other 5 are spewed out of His mouth into the tribulation period.
Yes, these are indeed virgins, servants of the master, and last but not least, the flock of the Lord, sheep and goats. Rather than spewing them out of His mouth, they are brought to correction (kolasis), rooted firmly in kolazo which means to trim and prune for enhancement.
Yes, these are indeed virgins, servants of the master, and last but not least, the flock of the Lord, sheep and goats. Rather than spewing them out of His mouth, they are brought to correction (kolasis), rooted firmly in kolazo which means to trim and prune for enhancement.
So, if there is no rapture, as false doctrine contends, where would the 5 foolish virgins be spewed out of His mouth to? The Bride (the 5 wise virgins) will be at the marriage, but the other 5 foolish virgins have to endure the tribulation period.
Matthew 25
13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.
"To the angel of the Church at Sardis write as follows: "`This is what He who has the seven Spirits of God and the seven stars says. I know your doings--you are supposed to be alive, but in reality you are dead.
Rouse yourself and keep awake, and strengthen those things which remain but have well-nigh perished; for I have found no doings of yours free from imperfection in the sight of My God.
Be mindful, therefore, of the lessons you have received and heard. Continually lay them to heart, and repent. If, however, you fail to rouse yourself and keep awake, I shall come upon you suddenly like a thief, and you will certainly not know the hour at which I shall come to judge you.
Yet you have in Sardis a few who have not soiled their garments; and they shall walk with Me in white; for they are worthy.
"`In this way he who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments; and I will certainly not blot out his name from the Book of Life, but will acknowledge him in the presence of My Father and His angels.
Let all who have ears give heed to what the Spirit is saying to the Churches.'
"To the angel of the Church at Philadelphia write as follows: "`This is what the holy One and the true says--He who has the key of David--He who opens and no one shall shut, and shuts and no one shall open.
I know your doings. I have put an opened door in front of you, which no one can shut; because you have but a little power, and yet you have guarded My word and have not disowned Me.
I will cause some belonging to Satan's synagogue who say that they themselves are Jews, and are not, but are liars--I will make them come and fall at your feet and know for certain that I have loved you.
Because in spite of suffering you have guarded My word, I in turn will guard you from that hour of trial which is soon coming upon the whole world, to put to the test the inhabitants of the earth.
I am coming quickly: cling to that which you already possess, so that your wreath of victory be not taken away from you.
"`He who overcomes--I will make him a pillar in the sanctuary of My God, and he shall never go out from it again. And I will write on him the name of My God, and the name of the city of My God, the new Jerusalem, which is to come down out of Heaven from My God, and My own new name.
Let all who have ears give heed to what the Spirit is saying to the Churches.'
"And to the angel of the Church at Laodicea write as follows: "`This is what the Amen says--the true and faithful witness, the Beginning and Lord of God's Creation.
I know your doings--you are neither cold nor hot; I would that you were cold or hot!
Accordingly, because you are lukewarm and neither hot nor cold, before long I will vomit you out of My mouth.
You say, I am rich, and have wealth stored up, and I stand in need of nothing; and you do not know that if there is a wretched creature it is *you* -- pitiable, poor, blind, naked.
Therefore I counsel you to buy of Me gold refined in the fire that you may become rich, and white robes to put on, so as to hide your shameful nakedness, and eye-salve to anoint your eyes with, so that you may be able to see.
All whom I hold dear, I reprove and chastise; therefore be in earnest and repent.
I am now standing at the door and am knocking. If any one listens to My voice and opens the door, I will go in to be with him and will feast with him, and he shall feast with Me.
"`To him who overcomes I will give the privilege of sitting down with Me on My throne, as I also have overcome and have sat down with My Father on His throne.
Let all who have ears give heed to what the Spirit is saying to the Churches.'"
Connect the dots and see this is the momentous "gathering of the saints" the Scriptures talk about! The 2 Witnesses are actually proclaiming the start of that specific Feast of Trumpets when God's people all throughout history will be resurrected and rise up to meet JC in the sky! Meanwhile those alive at that time will be raptured! (Rapture means instantaneous death and resurrection in the twinkling of an eye).
Wilvan, do you believe that the Lord must return in a Jubilee year? Many who follow the rapture and end-time events believe that the next Jubilee will be in 2017, 50 years from 1967. Or do you believe the Jubilee has been lost and we don't know the correct years anymore? Actually this question is directed to anyone who wants to reply or venture a guess.
Matthew 24:37-41 says:
"But as the days of Noe were, so shall the coming of the Son of man be. For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left."
Now who was taken in Noah's day? The wicked! Will it be different now? No, it will be like it was in Noah's day. That's what the Bible says. And if there is still any doubt in your mind as to whether the saints will be "taken when Jesus comes", let us turn to Luke 17:27. While Matthew says that the "flood came and took them all away", Luke gives the same account of this teaching of Jesus, except that in Luke we read: "and the flood came and destroyed them all". So to be "taken" means to be destroyed by the judgments that are coming upon the earth. Do you still want to be taken?
The Bible never says that Jesus returns "to" the clouds, or "on" clouds. It is very careful to tell us that He comes "in" the clouds, or "with" the clouds. Clouds of glory. Daniel 7:13 says "with" the clouds of heaven. Does Heaven have clouds? Oh yes. Revelation 1:7 also says that He comes "with" clouds. Matthew 24:30, 26:64, Mark 13:26, 14:62 and I Thessalonians 4:17 all say "in" the clouds. Hebrews 12:1 tells us that the heroes of faith are a cloud. Those Old Testament saints that have gone on to be with the Lord are a great cloud of witnesses. II Peter 2:17 and Jude 12 both tell us that false ministries are clouds without water. They appear to be a witness, but they have no life to give. Ecclesiastes 11:3 says that "if clouds be full of rain, they empty themselves upon the earth". A true ministry has life to give, and is willing to empty himself in order to be a blessing to a dry and thirsty people. Pour his life out for others -- that's what Jesus did. The Old Testament speaks about a cloud of incense over the Mercy seat in the Holy of Holies, and says that is where God will appear. "I will appear in the cloud upon the Mercy seat" (Lev 16:2).
Acts 1:11 is a scripture some like to quote, and they say "See, it says that as He went away, He shall come in like manner. And He left from that cloud and went up into heaven didn't He?" No, He didn't. Read it again. Acts 1:9-11...
"And when He had spoken these things, while they beheld, He was taken up; and a cloud received Him out of their sight. And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as He went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen Him go into heaven."
In like manner. Some say that He will come out of the sky and stop on a cloud where we will meet Him. But notice that in Acts 1:9 He did not start from a cloud and ascend to outer space. He started from their visible presence, and disappeared from view in a cloud, ascending by that means into heaven. Reverse the order, and we see Him appearing from out of a cloud and descending back into our visible presence where we can see Him and be with Him. Glory to God! "As He went" "In like manner".
What really happens is that Jesus is coming back with a sound of a trumpet. Now wherever the Bible speaks of a trumpet, it is symbolic of a message going forth. Look it up. Many scriptures confirm this. Trumpets sounded for each feast day. (See chapter 3 in this book.) And there is a message or trumpet of restoration that brings Jesus back to earth (Acts 3:21). And when He comes back, those saints that come back with Him shall receive their bodies again that were laid down in death. Those bodies shall ascend or rise out of that state of death, into a glorious state of likeness to His body of glory. Then those who are still dwelling in these mortal bodies shall be "caught up" into that same place. This mortal shall put on immortality. Death shall be swallowed up in victory. Then the Sons of God, that manchild company, shall be "caught up unto God, and to His throne". (Rev 12:5). The manifestation of the Sons of God (Romans 8) takes place. The Jubilee trumpet of Leviticus 25 begins to sound. The Melchisedec priesthood order passes through the veil into the Holy of Holies to be with their great High Priest, Jesus our Lord. Those whom He has made to be kings and priests begin to reign on this earth (Rev 5). The Armies of heaven who follow Jesus on white horses, destroy Babylon, burn her with fire, and bind Satan with unbreakable chain. All enemies begin to be put under the feet of the Body of Christ, until every enemy has been destroyed, even death! Whether or not you have faith to believe for these great things, does not bother me in the least. For the performance of those things God has spoken does not depend upon your faith, and is not hindered by your unbelief. He has spoken, and He shall perform it. The age of death, sin, sickness, crime, hate, war, pain, darkness and rebellion is rapidly coming to an end. The door is opening to a new age. The Kingdom is getting ready to come to earth!
Wilvan, do you believe that the Lord must return in a Jubilee year? Many who follow the rapture and end-time events believe that the next Jubilee will be in 2017, 50 years from 1967. Or do you believe the Jubilee has been lost and we don't know the correct years anymore? Actually this question is directed to anyone who wants to reply or venture a guess.
You might be interested in reading my writings in " to call Jesus the begotten Son of God means."
Wilvan, do you believe that the Lord must return in a Jubilee year? Many who follow the rapture and end-time events believe that the next Jubilee will be in 2017, 50 years from 1967. Or do you believe the Jubilee has been lost and we don't know the correct years anymore? Actually this question is directed to anyone who wants to reply or venture a guess.
Hi Thrillobyte, I believe Jesus Christ must return in a Sabbath year... not on a Jubilee year. Based on the prophecy of Daniel's 70th Week... the "week" is a clue that it is a Sabbath Cycle.
In a simple calculation the last Sabbath year will fall on the 5999th year of man's allotted 6000 yrs. (6000yrs divided by 7)... thereby confirming what Jesus said that the GT will be cut short for the sake of the elect.
1967 was a Sabbath year, therefore by adding 7's we have the following Sabbath Years: 1974, 1981, 1988, 1995, 2002, 2009, 2016, 2023, 2030... and so on.
So how do we know which one is the last 7 years? Jesus said we must watch and pray... like the seasons we will know when we see the signs.
But a Jubilee represents a restoration of all things to its original state - like slaves being freed (we sinners being freed from our fallen state to perfection) It just seems so "incomplete' that Jesus would return half-way through a Jubilee cycle. 120 years (years allotted man) x 50 (Jubilee years) =6000 years, eh?
Chosen, your last extended post gives more than ample evidence to at least question whether the rapture is a legitimate doctrine, much less prove it's an outright fraud. If sc and others choose to just shut their eyes to the obvious and continue in their errant beliefs then I'm afraid they are as Jesus described: the blind (Hal, Grant Jack, et. al) leading the blind (pre-tribbers who may or may not have read your excellent summaries)
Quote:
Certainly, we can agree that a sinner cannot be a virgin.
No, we cannot agree. All Christians are sinners. Therefore, by definition none of us are virgins. Jesus was referring to something else. This is just another example of dangerous conjecture--private interpretation--used by pre-tribbers to support the fallacy of the pre-trib rapture, without any solid biblical support underlying it. Certainly the example of Noah Chosen provides proves beyond a shadow of doubt that the ones being "taken" were the wicked just as in Luke's gospel where Jesus said the "taken" went to place for dead, rotting bodies to be used as carrion for the vultures. If that doesn't scream "the rapture" is a fraud" I don't know what does.
Last edited by thrillobyte; 06-07-2009 at 09:42 AM..
Reason: addition, typo
But a Jubilee represents a restoration of all things to its original state - like slaves being freed (we sinners being freed from our fallen state to perfection) It just seems so "incomplete' that Jesus would return half-way through a Jubilee cycle. 120 years (years allotted man) x 50 (Jubilee years) =6000 years, eh?
Chosen, your last extended post gives more than ample evidence to at least question whether the rapture is a legitimate doctrine, much less prove it's an outright fraud. If sc and others choose to just shut their eyes to the obvious and continue in their errant beliefs then I'm afraid they are as Jesus described: the blind (Hal, Grant Jack, et. al) leading the blind (pre-tribbers who may or may not have read your excellent summaries)
No, we cannot agree. All Christians are sinners. Therefore, by definition none of us are virgins. Jesus was referring to something else. This is just another example of dangerous conjecture--private interpretation--used by pre-tribbers to support the fallacy of the pre-trib rapture, without any solid biblical support underlining it. Certainly the example of Noah proves beyond a shadow of doubt that the ones being "taken" were the wicked just as in Luke's gospel where Jesus said the "taken" went to place for dead, rotting bodies to be used as carrion for the vultures. If that doesn't scream "the rapture" is a fraud" I don't know what does.
How can a Saint of God be a sinner? That would be a paradox. Truly born again Christians were sinners that are now saved by grace. Sin is a thing of the past for us. If anyone is still committing willful sins, then such a person is not saved.
(John 5:14) Jesus said, "... Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee."
All these man-made theories thrown around in this world church system are worthless, and God is going to destroy this Harlot.
(Matthew 7:14) Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
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