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Conditional Immortality is true, not eternal torment
The unsaved will be destroyed forever. Paul clearly states that the unsaved will "be punished with everlasting destruction" (2 Thessalonians 1:9). Notice he does not say "everlasting preservation." No hope of resurrection, no hope of life anymore. Just as a judicial court merits out the death penalty with the underlying basis of it being "missing out on the rest of your life," so too, will the sinners punishment be "missing out on the rest of your eternity."
This is why Jesus (Yeshua) and the apostles and the Psalmist can all state...
* James 4:12 ..........................There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy...
* Matthew 7:13-14 ..................broad the road that leads to destruction...
* 2 Thessalonians 1:9 .............Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction…
* Philippians 3:19 ...................whose end is destruction…
* Galatians 6:8 ........................from that nature will reap destruction
* Psalm 92:7 ...........................it is that they (i.e. all evil doers) shall be destroyed forever…
But what is the meaning of the word "destroy"? Perhaps it means eternal torment? You certainly have to import an alien meaning to the definition of the word 'destroy' (Gk: apollumi) if it means eternal torture. It is never directly translated this way in any New Testament writings. Never.
Again, I repeat the keen observation of that great evangelical commentator, John R. Stott, when he states:
"…it would seem strange ... if people who are said to suffer destruction are in fact not destroyed; and ... it is difficult to imagine a perpetually inconclusive process of perishing".(J. Stott and D. Edwards, Essentials: A Liberal-Evangelical Dialogue (London: Hodder & Stoughton, 1988, p. 316);
The fact of the matter is this, the body and soul of unbelievers can and will be destroyed one day. It will be Judgment Day to be exact. This "Day" is spoken about over and over again in scripture. Yes, the process itself will include suffering, but the end result according to the Jewish scriptures (the Bible) is destruction, death, cessation of life and thought.
Jesus taught that God would not "preserve" (as is commonly taught) but "destroy" both soul and body one day. Even if no other biblical writer ever used the word "destroy", we would still be forced to accept the 'destructibility' of the unsaved soul even if only based upon this rock solid statement of the Son of God in Matthew 10:28.
Plato was wrong, the soul is not indestructible.
Jesus was right, it is destructible.
This is what is biblically true. Conditional Immortality correctly teaches this truth.
The unsaved will be destroyed forever. Paul clearly states that the unsaved will "be punished with everlasting destruction" (2 Thessalonians 1:9). Notice he does not say "everlasting preservation." No hope of resurrection, no hope of life anymore. Just as a judicial court merits out the death penalty with the underlying basis of it being "missing out on the rest of your life," so too, will the sinners punishment be "missing out on the rest of your eternity."
Young's Literal Translation
who shall suffer justice -- destruction age-during -- from the face of the Lord, and from the glory of his strength,
Quote:
This is why Jesus (Yeshua) and the apostles and the Psalmist can all state...
* James 4:12 ..........................There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy...
* Matthew 7:13-14 ..................broad the road that leads to destruction...
* 2 Thessalonians 1:9 .............Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction…
* Philippians 3:19 ...................whose end is destruction…
* Galatians 6:8 ........................from that nature will reap destruction
* Psalm 92:7 ...........................it is that they (i.e. all evil doers) shall be destroyed forever…
Psalm 92:7 is not translated right either ... It should be ...
"it is that they shall be destroyed continually". (ad - to continue, again)
Quote:
But what is the meaning of the word "destroy"? Perhaps it means eternal torment? You certainly have to import an alien meaning to the definition of the word 'destroy' (Gk: apollumi) if it means eternal torture. It is never directly translated this way in any New Testament writings. Never.
Again, I repeat the keen observation of that great evangelical commentator, John R. Stott, when he states:
"…it would seem strange ... if people who are said to suffer destruction are in fact not destroyed; and ... it is difficult to imagine a perpetually inconclusive process of perishing".(J. Stott and D. Edwards, Essentials: A Liberal-Evangelical Dialogue (London: Hodder & Stoughton, 1988, p. 316);
The fact of the matter is this, the body and soul of unbelievers can and will be destroyed one day. It will be Judgment Day to be exact. This "Day" is spoken about over and over again in scripture. Yes, the process itself will include suffering, but the end result according to the Jewish scriptures (the Bible) is destruction, death, cessation of life and thought.
Jesus taught that God would not "preserve" (as is commonly taught) but "destroy" both soul and body one day. Even if no other biblical writer ever used the word "destroy", we would still be forced to accept the 'destructibility' of the unsaved soul even if only based upon this rock solid statement of the Son of God in Matthew 10:28.
Plato was wrong, the soul is not indestructible.
Jesus was right, it is destructible.
This is what is biblically true. Conditional Immortality correctly teaches this truth.
The word apollumi is the same word translated as lost ... as in ...
Luk 15:6
And when he cometh home, he calleth together his friends and neighbours, saying unto them, Rejoice with me; for I have found my sheep which was lost(apollumi).
Christ died to save those that are lost or destroyed, to save those who are appolumi ...
1) Do you believe, "God cannot destroy the soul, (even if He wanted to). The souls of all men are born indestructible."
May I ask, on what basis do you believe this? Do you believe God cannot destroy the soul? Why? There are very few things God cannot do and they all have to do with sinful behavior. God cannot be tempted to sin or do wrong. That's all God cannot do. So why would you believe God cannot destroy the soul, something that He Himself created? Does He lack the power? Does He lack the ability? There is absolutely no biblical foundation to the belief that God does not have the ability to destroy the soul.
2) Or do you believe,"God does have the ability to destroy the soul, but chooses not to."
If this were true, then why would the specific word "destroy" even come up in the New Testament writings in relation to the unsaved? Why would God use the word "destroy" if He really will not destroy the soul? Is God trying to intentionally deceive us by using words that have a different meaning than what their plain meaning is? Isn't this a basic rule of hermeneutics? The literal meaning is the first meaning used unless context declares otherwise. Don't you have to redefine "destroy" in every single one of these instances in order to get something other than "destruction" as the final fate of the unsaved?
* Matthew 10:28...............rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell
* James 4:12....................There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy
* Philippians 3:19.............Whose end is destruction
* 2 Thessalonians 1:9........Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction
* Hebrews 10:39...............But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition (Greek: destruction)
The great Inter-Varsity Press evangelical author, John R. Stott, (who also left the traditional view) brings up a well-argued point for 'conditional immortality', when he states:
"…it would seem strange ... if people who are said to suffer destruction are in fact not destroyed; and ... it is difficult to imagine a perpetually inconclusive process of perishing". (J. Stott and D. Edwards, Essentials: A Liberal-Evangelical Dialogue (London: Hodder & Stoughton, 1988, p. 316);
Stott is correct. Reread that statement. The word destruction is meaningless if there is not a point where the destruction is complete. In other words, you can't keep on destroying something for all eternity. It's a contradiction in terms. Therefore, conditional immortality correctly affirms the biblical position that the souls of the lost people will all be destroyed at the end of the age. (Revelation 20:15) This is what the scripture calls the "second death".
The first death is temporary. In the first death, only the body is destroyed in the graveyard. However, there will be a resurrection one day of all humanity, a bodily resurrection. The second death will never be followed by a resurrection. In the second death, the body and soul are both destroyed (not preserved), (Matthew 10:28) forever.
The second death could not mean eternal torment because it is linked to the first death. The numerical values "first" and "second" show that they are related terms and therefore the deaths must be related too. In the first death, the body stops functioning. In the second death, the body and soul stop functioning forever. They are both destroyed. Yeshua (Jesus) says specifically "both" in Matthew 10:28. Sadly, traditional theology wrongly states that the soul cannot be destroyed in clear contradiction to the Lord's word.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776
If those who are destroyed(apollymi) are lost forever, than How can Christ say that he in fact "came to save the lost/destroyed(apollymi)?
Mat 18:11
for the Son of Man did come to save the lost(apollymi - destroyed).
Luk 19:10
for the Son of Man came to seek and to save the lost(apollymi - destroyed).
Did Christ lie when he said this?
He came to seek and save them, but that doesn't mean all will accept him and be saved. They were lost at that stage because they were headed for destruction.
He came to seek and save them, but that doesn't mean all will accept him and be saved. They were lost at that stage because they were headed for destruction.
So you are saying his purpose was to save the lost.. yet he didn't fulfill his purpose?
He came to seek and save them, but that doesn't mean all will accept him and be saved. They were lost at that stage because they were headed for destruction.
So basically you are saying he failed ... Mostly. Yet Christ said he would leave the 99 sheep to find the last one which is lost(apollymi) ... the fact is no where in the bible does it say what you surmise.
Love never fails, and the mercy of God never falters. And Christ is 100% victorious though many Christians claim he is mostly a failure.
No one claims Christ is a failure, it is mankind that has failed.
Of course mankind has failed, because God subjected us to vanity and not of our own choice ...
When being made subject to vanity there is no option but to fail. That is why man needs Christ. All Mankind has failed to earn salvation, but Christ has not failed to save all mankind.
If anyone claims that Christ will not save the those who are apollymi, and that most people will be for ever apollymi, then they are claiming Christ failed to do what he came to do, which is to save those who are apollymi.
Last edited by Ironmaw1776; 03-01-2010 at 12:34 AM..
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Conditional Immortality is true, not eternal torment
