Predestination (born, doctrine, believe, scripture)

[ShanaBrown]

why would it matter, we all go to heaven anyway, right?

Hi, I don't understand why this is a problem. Does having a relationship with God today, turning away from sin, living for Him today right now, today have no value - not important? A doctor has medicine that will cure all people. Because all people will eventually be cured, people should not take the medicine today and experience the benefits of the medicine? No, since you are going to be cured too, I might as well not take the medicine.... God bless.

[beloved57]

Originally Posted by legoman

LOL Have a nice day b57...

Please God grant us all more understaning.

You are rejecting spiritual understanding, and thats because God is actively blinding you..its His will for you not to have it..

this be the case sometimes:

Matt 13:

11He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

[beloved57]

david once prayed this prayer:

ps 106:

That I may see the good of thy chosen, that I may rejoice in the gladness of thy nation, that I may glory with thine inheritance.

Paul in writing to the thessalonians, 2 thess 2:

13But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

Some, but not all are chosen to be saved..

The beloved of the LORD..the devil and his angels and his seed/children are not beloved in the Lord..

This goes back to Jesus prayer in jn 17:


23I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

24Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.

So this refers back to my previous article of that, Jesus being chosen is his members being chosen..so likewise Jesus being the Fathers Beloved as in:

mk 9:7

And there was a cloud that overshadowed them: and a voice came out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him.

lk 20:13

Then said the lord of the vineyard, What shall I do? I will send my beloved son: it may be they will reverence him when they see him.

So too, the thessalonians, for christ sake and being chosen in him before the world began, paul addresses them as the beloved of the Lord..

This excludes the non elect, the children of the devil, the devils seed..for they were not chosen in the beloved Son..but they were chosen in their father the devil..

Now, many false teachers will force the meaning of the beginning in the verse to mean but the beginning of a ministry, but thats not scriptural and merely a weak attempt to corrupt the truth, for Gods choosing for salvation is from the beginning of time, even before time began..for as posted, Jesus was Loved, and chosen before the world began, so likewise his members..jn 17:23,24

So how could the thessalonians be beloved of the Lord at that so early of a date, and not be chosen to salvation..Thats just like saying Jesus christ was not their chosen head and Saviour at that time..

In prov 8 we have a reference to the GodMan Mediator, Jesus christ being set up as the Mediator and Saviour of His people..

prov 8:

23I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was

30Then I was by him, as one brought up with him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him;

31Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth; and my delights were with the sons of men. [the elect of God in adam]

So its the beloved of the LORD, the chosen ones, who are for salvation..

Not the children of the devil, the seed of the serpent..they are excluded from salvation and will be consigned to eternal fire..

jude :

Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

Not all were chosen to salvation..but only the beloved of the LORD..

[svenM]

Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
Acts 3:21

When thy sisters, Sodom and her daughters, shall return to their former estate, and Samaria and her daughters shall return to their former estate, then thou and thy daughters shall return to your former estate.
Ezekiel 16:55

Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.
Matthew 10:15

judgment can be only more tolerable if it's limited

Sodom and Gomorrha are called an example of the eternal fire, yet it be will be tolerable to them on Judgment day than for others and they will be restored as spoken by Ezekiel.

[ShanaBrown]

Sodom and Gomorrha are called an example of the eternal fire, yet it be will be tolerable to them on Judgment day then for others and they will be restored as spoken by Ezekiel.

That's right. God bless.

[svenM]

please read Ezekiel chapter 16

[ShanaBrown]

Then they will be restored in this eternal fire. God bless.

[Thy Kingdom Come]

Originally Posted by beloved57

david once prayed this prayer:

That I may see the good of thy chosen, that I may rejoice in the gladness of thy nation, that I may glory with thine inheritance.

Are these the seed of the devil or the seed of God who are burning incense to Baal?

• Hosea 2:13 And I will visit upon her the days of Baalim, wherein she burned incense to them, and she decked herself with her earrings and her jewels, and she went after her lovers, and forgat me, saith the LORD.

• Romans 11:4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal. 5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

[beloved57]

Originally Posted by ShanaBrown

Then they will be restored in this eternal fire. God bless.

No restoring, torment forever and ever..

rev 14:


And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

[ShanaBrown]

Yep, they will be restored. Ezekiel 16. God bless.