Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Geesh this is a very messed up topic on here. Hard to even try to sort it all out. First of all Fundy people I believe are predestined but not to Hell. People are chosen and the ones that aren't God makes his love available to them but it is up to them to accept it or not. Second Beloved57 your right God does hate but he doesn't hateeveryone and we are not to hate everyone. God hates sin therefore we are to hate sin. In the NT there is never a verse that puts it in todays era it is always past tense when it mentions God's Love. Know we do know that God is the same today and tomorrow as he was then. You certainly show no respect to the others on here. God never said you had to love everyone but he said not to hate anyone. Third PC watch using those 4 little letters that you started your last post off with I think the A could be exchanged with a B.
God reaches whom He wills, But the Truly Godly Hates those who rise up against God and His truth..
2 chron 19:
2And Jehu the son of Hanani the seer went out to meet him, and said to king Jehoshaphat, Shouldest thou help the ungodly, and love them that hate the LORD? [NO] therefore is wrath upon thee from before the LORD.
ps 139:
19Surely thou wilt slay the wicked, O God: depart from me therefore, ye bloody men.
20For they speak against thee wickedly, and thine enemies take thy name in vain. 21Do not I hate them, O LORD, that hate thee? and am not I grieved with those that rise up against thee? 22I hate them with perfect hatred: I count them mine enemies.
Enemies in our mind beloved enemies in our mind.
Colossians 1: 21
20and through him to reconcile the all things to himself -- having made peace through the blood of his cross -- through him, whether the things upon the earth, whether the things in the heavens. 21And you -- once being alienated, and enemies in the mind, in the evil works, yet now did he reconcile, 22in the body of his flesh through the death, to present you holy, and unblemished, and unblameable before himself,
All things includes His enemies, including those who christians that hate believers and unbelievers
20and through him to reconcile the all things to himself -- having made peace through the blood of his cross -- through him, whether the things upon the earth, whether the things in the heavens. 21And you -- once being alienated, and enemies in the mind, in the evil works, yet now did he reconcile, 22in the body of his flesh through the death, to present you holy, and unblemished, and unblameable before himself,
All things includes His enemies, including those who christians that hate believers and unbelievers
2 chron 19:
2And Jehu the son of Hanani the seer went out to meet him, and said to king Jehoshaphat, Shouldest thou help the ungodly, and love them that hate the LORD? [NO] therefore is wrath upon thee from before the LORD.
ps 139:
19Surely thou wilt slay the wicked, O God: depart from me therefore, ye bloody men.
20For they speak against thee wickedly, and thine enemies take thy name in vain. 21Do not I hate them, O LORD, that hate thee? and am not I grieved with those that rise up against thee? 22I hate them with perfect hatred: I count them mine enemies.
2and jehu the son of hanani the seer went out to meet him, and said to king jehoshaphat, shouldest thou help the ungodly, and love them that hate the lord? [no] therefore is wrath upon thee from before the lord.
Ps 139:
19surely thou wilt slay the wicked, o god: Depart from me therefore, ye bloody men.
20for they speak against thee wickedly, and thine enemies take thy name in vain. 21do not i hate them, o lord, that hate thee? And am not i grieved with those that rise up against thee? 22i hate them with perfect hatred: I count them mine enemies.
10With a view to this we toil and strive, [yes and] [a]suffer reproach, because we have [fixed our] hope on the living God, Who is the Savior (Preserver, Maintainer, Deliverer) of all men, especially of those who believe (trust in, rely on, and adhere to Him).
The word "especially" shows that God's salvation is not only for those that believe ("the elect" in your point of view) but ALSO of those that do not believe (the "devil's children" from your point of view).
It is very difficult for anyone, in light of the above scripture, to refute this verse and hold to so dogmatic a position that God will only save believers.
I really would like to hear an explanation, for the verse above, from those who adhere to the belief that you absolutely have to believe to be saved.
It is very difficult for anyone, in light of the above scripture, to refute this verse and hold to so dogmatic a position that God will only save believers.
I really would like to hear an explanation, for the verse above, from those who adhere to the belief that you absolutely have to believe to be saved.
Simple, he is the savior of all men meaning He died for all, but unfortunately not all will believe. So especially the ones who believe. No doubt there is a difference between a believer and unbeliever in this very passage. That must be the reason otherwise it contradicts other verses in the bible. There are way to many verses saying sinners will not enter heaven to argue otherwise. It is completely unscriptural to say unbelievers will go to heaven. Paul even says what fellowship has righteousness with unrighteousness? So why would God put us all together in the same place? not scriptural or logical to think such.
Simple, he is the savior of all men meaning He died for all, but unfortunately not all will believe. So especially the ones who believe. No doubt there is a difference between a believer and unbeliever in this very passage. That must be the reason otherwise it contradicts other verses in the bible. There are way to many verses saying sinners will not enter heaven to argue otherwise. It is completely unscriptural to say unbelievers will go to heaven. Paul even says what fellowship has righteousness with unrighteousness? So why would God put us all together in the same place? not scriptural or logical to think such.
This is an illogical and twisted rationalization to maintain your preferred belief in your specialness as a believer. There will definitely be CONSEQUENCES for those who do not "love God and each other" . . . ALL failures do have them . . . but ET or any other outrageous fate is ludicrous on its face. God does not punish. We simply don't know how they will be changed . . . but they will be changed.
This is an illogical and twisted rationalization to maintain your preferred belief in your specialness as a believer. There will definitely be CONSEQUENCES for those who do not "love God and each other" . . . ALL failures do have them . . . but ET or any other outrageous fate is ludicrous on its face. God does not punish. We simply don't know how they will be changed . . . but they will be changed.
I beg to differ with you here....God does punish sin but the punishment is corrective and it has an end...it is not done for ever and ever.
I beg to differ with you here....God does punish sin but the punishment is corrective and it has an end...it is not done for ever and ever.
WE don't differ, Christy . . . there are consequences for our failures . . . but they are not punishments. If we violate God's law of gravity and suffer the consequences was it a punishment? Why then should violations of any of God's other "laws" (the way God ordered the universe and established our purpose) be considered as punishments?
Last edited by MysticPhD; 09-25-2009 at 03:55 PM..
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
