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It makes me shudder, I feel a chill, it seems so unthinkable you or anyone making some claim to knowing and obeying enough of the Word of God to speak with some authority could endure insulting God with restating His word, lying about what He said, misrepresenting Him. As if He didn't quite have the good sense to correct Himself to say what you try to make Him say. What you report is, 1.) "Why is it that only a few will come and respond to the gospel..." 2.) "When someone preaches the gospel only a few come?"Then you have the audacity to say: "It's the same question." 3.) "Why only a few?"
Here's the quote from Luke 13:23 (AV) "Then said one unto him, Lord, are there few that be saved?" Three (3) times you restate God's Word as saying something other than what it says. You repeatedly say, "Only a few will be saved," falsifying God's own Word. You actually have the guts to say, "It's the same question." When the question is, "Are there few?" Not, "Why are there few?" Just who do you think you are playing with? The Bible says, "God is not mocked!" You seem to think your doctrine is more important than what God says.
You did observe He did not directly answer the question you burn to have answered in the way you obsess on it so you could get one up on those people who believe with the Apostle James (5:11) "...Ye have heard of the patience of Job, and have seen the end of the Lord; that the Lord is very pitiful, and of tender mercy."
Let's see if I get this right. Here's some verses with your "few" in it. (I changed "all" to "few" so it agrees with your proclamation, just like you changed the word!)
Romans 11:32
"For God has consigned a few men to disobedience that He might have mercy upon a few."
1 Timothy 2:4
"For this is good and pleasing in the eyes of God our Saviour; who will have a few men to be saved and come to an increasing knowledge of the truth."
1 Timothy 2:6
"For there is one intermediary (One who brings God and men together) who gave Himself a ransom in behalf of a few to be testified in due time."
2 Peter 3:9
"The Lord is not slack/does not loiter/ is not dilatory concerning his promise, according to some people's conception of slowness; but He bears patiently with you, because it is not His will for any to be lost, but for a few to come/reach repentance."
Phil. 2:10,11
In order that in adoration of the Name of Jesus a few knees of worshippers will bow themselves and openly acknowledge with joy, in celebration and praise, that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father. This profession and confession of His lordship shall be open and freely proclaimed, acknowledged joyfully by a few beings in the heavens, by a few beings on the earth and by a few beings in the underworld.
Right, if eternal torture or even annihilationism were true, it would have been allot easier if the apostles had just used the appropriate words ... But take this verse ...
2 Peter 3:9
"The Lord is not slack/does not loiter/ is not dilatory concerning his promise, according to some people's conception of slowness; but He bears patiently with you, because it is not His will for any to be lost, but for a few to come/reach repentance."
in this regard then it should actually read ...
2 Peter 3:9
"The Lord is not slack/does not loiter/ is not dilatory concerning his promise, according to some people's conception of slowness; but He bears patiently with you, because it is not His will for some to be lost, but for a few to come/reach repentance."
If these where the words it would imply God only desiring a few to be saved, and he would therefore desire many to be lost. The idea of Gods election is still evident, but he would not be the savior of the world(kosmos) then would he? Then he would be merely the savior of the elect and the eternal tormentor of the kosmos.
Note the rich man whom Jesus told to sell all his things and follow him? That man was unable to enter the kingdom of heaven through the narrow gate. The disciples ask Christ how then it is possible any man should be saved ... Christ gives a remarkable answer ... Christ tells them that for man, the "all things" is not possible, but with God the "all things" is possible. So even that man who could not enter the kingdom of Heaven through the narrow way which is following Christ, it is possible for him to enter heaven by God which is able to do the "all things".
There has long been the teaching that the eye of the needle is actually a small emergency gate or entrance into Jerusalem that allowed people to go in and out in times of war when the mane gate were sealed. There is some debate as to the legitimacy of this teaching ... But to use the analogy ... If only a few are able to enter by way of this gate(eye of the needle, narrow way) during a time of war, that is not to say that the manyare not then able to enter through the main gate when the war is over and the victory declared.
Last edited by Ironmaw1776; 07-16-2009 at 11:06 AM..
Yes, proportionally is right..perhaps during the Time of noah , research estimates there was 12 million people upon the earth.. So whats the percentage saved if only 8 out of 12 million were saved ?
Now, today the population is what ? Close to 7 billion !
Now 8 out of 12 million is this percentage is roughly .6 %, thats way under 1 % of the people were saved during the Time of noah..
And it will be proportioned here at the end of the world..
Same principle with Lot..4 people escaped Judgment out of cities that were estimated to have thousands..
Jesus has warned you..
Actually 8 out of 12 million is only 0.00006% !!!
So using this same ratio, and assuming 7 billion people on the earth today, that would mean from today's world, roughly 4667 people will be saved who are alive today.
But that's not the entire population of mankind. I have heard rough estimates that there have bene 160 billion people alive since Adam was born. So using that number, we can estimate that God will save in total about 107000 people. This is assuming Jesus returns very soon. The numbers will increase depending on how long it takes for this age to end.
So according to your beliefs, there will be about 107000 people reigning with God in heaven, while close to 160 billion people will be burning in fire for ever.
Wow. What a victory for God. Doesn't seem like God really wanted to save very many people does it?
Now lets compare these numbers to what scripture says.
I'll round them off for simplicity. Based on the previous post's calculations, there will be about 100000 people in heaven and about 160 billion people in hell.
Gen 22:17 I will surely bless you and make your descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and as the sand on the seashore.
Gen 32:12 But you have said, 'I will surely make you prosper and will make your descendants like the sand of the sea, which cannot be counted.'
These verses are talking about Abraham's seed - those who believe and are saved in Christ.
Now 100000 is a reasonably big number, but I'm pretty sure there is more than 100000 grains of sand on the seashore, and there are definitely more than 100000 stars. And I'm pretty sure I could count to 100000, given enough time. But scripture says Abraham's seed cannot be counted!
Hm, I think there is something wrong with your numbers here.... perhaps there is a misunderstanding in what the "few" and the "many" are predestined for...
So using this same ratio, and assuming 7 billion people on the earth today, that would mean from today's world, roughly 4667 people will be saved who are alive today.
But that's not the entire population of mankind. I have heard rough estimates that there have bene 160 billion people alive since Adam was born. So using that number, we can estimate that God will save in total about 107000 people. This is assuming Jesus returns very soon. The numbers will increase depending on how long it takes for this age to end.
So according to your beliefs, there will be about 107000 people reigning with God in heaven, while close to 160 billion people will be burning in fire for ever.
Wow. What a victory for God. Doesn't seem like God really wanted to save very many people does it?
Sounds like 144,000 is what it is. I guess the Jehovah's Witnesses were right all along!
Ok, thats about proportinate now on earth of how many are actually saved..and i would say most of that is outside of usa..
You have nothing of Scripture or of your own experience to tell you that kind of nonsense. At the very least you could look at some legitimate statistics if you cared to understand. God forbid the numbering of the people, so you can't know this anyway! How can you endure such fabrications, much less pass them off as truth, as if you knew something about this! . . . !!
Jesus says the field is the world and the good grain is the sons of the kingdom. The tares are sown by the enemy. They are but a few weeds in the world that is a cultivated field of the sons of God. The world is not a wilderness of weeds with a few patches of wheat here and there on the borders. This truth exists independently of any ideas, true or false, about the distant future.
[quote=beloved57;9791338]Yes, proportionally is right..perhaps during the Time of noah , research estimates there was 12 million people upon the earth.. So whats the percentage saved if only 8 out of 12 million were saved ?
Now, today the population is what ? Close to 7 billion !
Now 8 out of 12 million is this percentage is roughly .6 %, thats way under 1 % of the people were saved during the Time of noah..
And it will be proportioned here at the end of the world..
Same principle with Lot..4 people escaped Judgment out of cities that were estimated to have thousands..
Jesus has warned you..[/quote]
Jesus has warned of what?! According to YOU there is NOTHING to be warned of anyhow! Most of us are the devil's seed right?! So what is there to be warned of? If you're not already an "elect" then Jesus is saying "To HELL with YOU Spawn Of Satan!!!!" According to YOU Jesus pretty much hates the whole world and went through with calvary for only a few petty stuck up super special "elect" ones! Which makes NO SENSE at all!
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