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Pneuma, give me your questions one at a time. A good discussion is not about raising several points but to debate a point at a time. I knew my last question for you would open lots of problematic issues for your position.
BTW, my quetions was not how were we created but whether we are carnal before we are spiritual.
Did not Adam choose DEATH?
Is not Adam a MAN?
Is MANS WAYS Gods WAYS?
We are not born carnal Paul we are born natural with a spirit, soul and body.
And your question does not pose any problem for me Paul, for being carnal is following your body not your spirit.
Of course Adam is a man and chose death. Adam wouldn't choose life. And yes Man's ways are NOT God's ways. But remember God directs the steps of man.
Man makes choices but it is God directing those choices.
Your understanding of those scriptures is in error, God does not direct mans steps to sin, but God does direct man steps out of sin and death. If God directed mans steps to sin and enter into death, then Gods way and mans way are the same thing, which is against what the scriptures say.
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Ok pneuma, I didn't ask how we are born. I asked if we are Carnal before we are Spirtual.
I answered your question the only way it can be answered because your question is faulty.
You seem to be under the impression that all men are carnal before they are spiritual and this would include Adam who was a son of God. Man was not created nor born carnal, man was/is created spirit, soul and body. It depends on who we yield our selves to that makes us spiritual or carnal. If you walk in the spirit you will not fulfill the lust of the flesh, if you fulfill the lust of the flesh you walk in carnality.
What you would have me believe is that man is incapable of following the spirit, which is totally against all scripture.
So explain to me how a son of God is incapable of obeying God.
Your understanding of those scriptures is in error, God does not direct mans steps to sin, but God does direct man steps out of sin and death. If God directed mans steps to sin and enter into death, then Gods way and mans way are the same thing, which is against what the scriptures say.
I agree that God doesn't direct man to sin but God created man subject to vanity. So man only knows to sin. So God uses the sins of the man to accomplish His Good will. This is what you don't seem to comprehend Pneuma. Case in point is that of evil intentions of Joseph's brothers to leave him in a pit. We know that later this event would lead to saving those same brothers from famine.
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I answered your question the only way it can be answered because your question is faulty.
Ok, remember, you said that issue is faulty. That means to say someone is carnal before they are Spiritual is a faulty thing to you. So tell me how someone becomes carnal?
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You seem to be under the impression that all men are carnal before they are spiritual and this would include Adam who was a son of God. Man was not created nor born carnal, man was/is created spirit, soul and body. It depends on who we yield our selves to that makes us spiritual or carnal. If you walk in the spirit you will not fulfill the lust of the flesh, if you fulfill the lust of the flesh you walk in carnality.
What you would have me believe is that man is incapable of following the spirit, which is totally against all scripture.
So explain to me how a son of God is incapable of obeying God.
Yes, I am under the impression that all men are carnal before they are Spiritual. And yes that included Adam. And yes, I'm saying that man's nature in unable to follow God. But we shall continue to debate this as this thread continues.
You keep looking at Adam/mans WAYS as though they are Gods WAYS
Incorrect, I believe God's ways are above man's ways. But again, as I already showed God directs mans steps. Man can only have a way (anyway - good or evil) in the framework which God's provides and is in complete command and control of. Do you not realize that not even a sparrow falls to teh ground without the father. This doesn't mean just His knowledge but it takes the Father's purpose and will for that to happen.
Is this a true statement - Only God can give life and take it away?
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