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“Anyone who acts in truth comes to the light so his deeds are revealed as works of God.” (Jesus)
I’ve spread Jesus’ words to many. Paul quoted Him maybe one time and that is a big maybe. I am inspired, Paul never was. If you want to see the kingdom of heaven follow me.
Don't you sound familiar! Sayonara, "Fullafaith" and the other names you've had.
What you are trying to call "deception" is what Jesus meant by "carnal milk." They were not remotely ready for the spiritual truth so it had to be compatible with what their carnal minds could grasp (especially since they were terrified of Spirits). The interpretations were for our primitive ancestors, period. That it has endured for two millennia and counting without significant revision is puzzling to me.
Paul was one of the hypocritical Pharisees (who falsely claim to be sincere Pharisees) whom Jesus Christ warned against.
Paul was the first person responsible for the worship and deification of Christ
How can Paul be considered a saint when he was not one of the disciples in the first place and did not see Christ in his life (the Christ). What if someone came and claimed like what Paul claimed and came with 1000 witnesses! And he wanted to change the teachings of Christianity. You will believe him
And if
We read Paul's letters carefully and saw that the disciples did not like him because he was arrogant toward them and disagreed with them on many things.
First, the disciples did not believe his repentance until Barnabas intervened as an intermediary between him and the disciples.
But Barnabas knew the truth about Paul
There was a quarrel between them until they separated from each other.
Because of Paul's errors that he spread in his preaching,
He lacked piety and faith in spreading other extremely blasphemous teachings.
Make Christ the Son of God,
He rejected the circumcision ordered by God.
All unclean meat is permitted
He invented the resurrection of Christ and redemption
The infamous 1 Thess. "rapture" passage. Let's take another look at it:
Bolded verse 15 paraphrased: "Now I have this on direct authority from God Himself what I am about to say to you." Paul is about to lay his entire reputation as a prophet and man of God on the line. Remember the OT warning, "If a prophet prophecies a thing and it does not come to pass he is a false prophet and shall be stoned."
17 "Then 'we' [you good folks of Thessolonia, myself, and all Christians alive today in this 1st century] which are alive will be lifted into the clouds to meet the Lord in the air." Paul assures the Thessolonians that HE and they will take part in this great event.
Now several questions arise from this simple statement. Please consider them carefully and see if Paul committed the biggest blunder of the Christians era, or did he foist the biggest lie in the history of man onto the Christian community:
Question #1:
Is Paul talking about a literal lifting in the air of physical bodies which then change to glorified, OR is he speaking of a spiritual change in our "inner" bodies (souls)?
Question #2:
Was Paul referring to a future event or one that would take place in his day?
*If future, why did Paul word the passage in such a way that the Thessolonians could only interpret it to mean that they were to be the recipients of this glorious event. That would have been purely deceitful on Paul's part. That Paul falsely included himself in this passage only adds to the deceit, giving the Thessolonians false hope that he himself would be there to accompany them to heaven.
*If present, why didn't the rapture take place. What must Paul have been thinking when, 10 or 15 years later, the rapture never happened and he was under the axman's blade? Possibly, "Huh"? Wa Hoppon?"
Question #3:
If Paul was speaking of a spiritual lifting up of souls to God when they receive Jesus, did the Thessolonians understand that Paul was speaking of spiritual matters and not a physical change?
Question #4
If the Thessolonians didn't understand this was to be a spiritual change then why didn't Paul correct their misunderstanding and say to them plainly, "Hey, you guys are misunderstanding me. I'm not speaking of a physical translation; I'm speaking of a spiritual one."
Again, in a nutshell: if Paul was speaking of a physical rapture in his lifetime, and he had it on direct authority from God that this rapture was going to occur in his lifetime, then why did he die under an axman's blade years later?
I'd appreciate your best answers from futurists and preterists alike so we can determine if Paul is either the most misunderstood apostle in the Bible or the most egregious.
" We are are alive and remain."
Paul was quoting Zechatiah 14 and a worldwide death occurence.
Millions stay alive while billions die, and then he said," We who are alive and remain."
Alive after the great death, or he sure wouldnt have phrased it this way.
Everyone will stand in the fire Thrill, some die by fire, but some are not touched by the fire, and they remain.
The infamous 1 Thess. "rapture" passage. Let's take another look at it:
Bolded verse 15 paraphrased: "Now I have this on direct authority from God Himself what I am about to say to you." Paul is about to lay his entire reputation as a prophet and man of God on the line. Remember the OT warning, "If a prophet prophecies a thing and it does not come to pass he is a false prophet and shall be stoned."
17 "Then 'we' [you good folks of Thessolonia, myself, and all Christians alive today in this 1st century] which are alive will be lifted into the clouds to meet the Lord in the air." Paul assures the Thessolonians that HE and they will take part in this great event.
Now several questions arise from this simple statement. Please consider them carefully and see if Paul committed the biggest blunder of the Christians era, or did he foist the biggest lie in the history of man onto the Christian community:
Question #1:
Is Paul talking about a literal lifting in the air of physical bodies which then change to glorified, OR is he speaking of a spiritual change in our "inner" bodies (souls)?
Question #2:
Was Paul referring to a future event or one that would take place in his day?
*If future, why did Paul word the passage in such a way that the Thessolonians could only interpret it to mean that they were to be the recipients of this glorious event. That would have been purely deceitful on Paul's part. That Paul falsely included himself in this passage only adds to the deceit, giving the Thessolonians false hope that he himself would be there to accompany them to heaven.
*If present, why didn't the rapture take place. What must Paul have been thinking when, 10 or 15 years later, the rapture never happened and he was under the axman's blade? Possibly, "Huh"? Wa Hoppon?"
Question #3:
If Paul was speaking of a spiritual lifting up of souls to God when they receive Jesus, did the Thessolonians understand that Paul was speaking of spiritual matters and not a physical change?
Question #4
If the Thessolonians didn't understand this was to be a spiritual change then why didn't Paul correct their misunderstanding and say to them plainly, "Hey, you guys are misunderstanding me. I'm not speaking of a physical translation; I'm speaking of a spiritual one."
Again, in a nutshell: if Paul was speaking of a physical rapture in his lifetime, and he had it on direct authority from God that this rapture was going to occur in his lifetime, then why did he die under an axman's blade years later?
I'd appreciate your best answers from futurists and preterists alike so we can determine if Paul is either the most misunderstood apostle in the Bible or the most egregious.
You are overthinking it. The rapture is not some special physical event. It describes the "death" experience we ALL will experience at the end of our days on earth. Paul was speaking about spiritual things to carnal minds that tried unsuccessfully to understand it. We are Spirits growing to our birth as Spirit. My encounter could be characterized as rapturous so I can understand what Paul was trying to explain to them. They did not understand spiritual things, were terrified of spirits, and needed the "carnal milk" of physical resurrection, period.
In the Second Epistle to Corinthians, Paul himself acknowledges that Satan changes his appearance into an angel of light...
14 And he is not surprised, because his soul changes his appearance into the likeness of an angel of light.
Add to this that he did not meet Jesus face to face and did not see him once, and he cannot write whether this was Jesus or not. Everything he saw was copied, according to his claim, it was just light!
An important point in other areas is that Jesus did not mention that anyone would appear, nor did anyone prophesy about this. Rather, Jesus in John 14:16 says...
16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Comforter to abide with you as a servant.
The same chapter also says...
26 But the Comforter, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you.
From this we conclude that Jesus will not appear yet, but there is (another) and this other will not disappear and then return, as happened to Paul, but will remain to teach them, speak to them, and remind them of everything Jesus said!! So the one who belongs to Paul cannot be Jesus. As we said, if the text insisted that I see something, I do not think that he saw anything other than Satan in the form of light
Paul raises himself to the level of saints who - as he sees it - will judge the world, including the angels. He says: “Do you not know that the saints will judge the world?...Do you not know that we will judge angels” (1 Corinthians 2/6-3). He will judge the angels, of whom He mentioned that Christ was a little lower (see Hebrews 2/9). He also said, proud of himself: “God chose us before the foundation of the world to be holy and blameless in love” (Ephesians 1/4).
Then he continued to gloat to himself until he said: “I see that I did not fall short of the most prominent messengers.” (Corinthians 2:11/5)
In the Second Epistle to Corinthians, Paul himself acknowledges that Satan changes his appearance into an angel of light...
14 And he is not surprised, because his soul changes his appearance into the likeness of an angel of light.
Add to this that he did not meet Jesus face to face and did not see him once, and he cannot write whether this was Jesus or not. Everything he saw was copied, according to his claim, it was just light!
An important point in other areas is that Jesus did not mention that anyone would appear, nor did anyone prophesy about this. Rather, Jesus in John 14:16 says...
16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Comforter to abide with you as a servant.
The same chapter also says...
26 But the Comforter, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you.
<snip diatribe against Paul>
The problem with Christian dogma is that it is carnal (as is true of Islam and Judaism), NOT spiritual. That has been the major problem with understanding Jesus. Our carnal-minded ancestors could not grasp anything spiritual (and they were terrified of Spirits). There hasn't been any difference in interpretation and understanding of the spiritual message of Jesus for over two millennia and counting. Paul tried but was unsuccessful in overcoming the carnal minds of those who controlled the scriptures.
The Comforter has been with us since Jesus died and was "born again" as Spirit (the Holy Spirit). As Jesus unsuccessfully tried to explain to Nicodemus that is what humans do. They die and are "born again" as Spirit. Jesus's "born again" Spirit IS the Comforter He promised us. His Holy Spirit (identical to God's) has established a place in Heaven at the right hand of God for all "born again" human Soirits.
Ephesians 2:15-16 King James Version
15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
What Paul said in Ephesians is that the two natures in Jesus (human and Spirit) were at enmity. The law was designed to train us to overcome the baser urges of our human nature. ALL humans have this conflict within us. Jesus merged the two into one Spirit (God's Holy Spirit) and reconciled the enmity as He demonstrated on the Cross. That is why the law was no longer relevant. The Holy Spirit of agape love replaced them because Jesus fulfilled their purpose. That is why the two commands to love God and each other cover all the laws. We can have that same Spirit if we strive as often as possible to be "in Christ"(in the states of mind associated with the "mind of Christ").
Philippians 2:5 King James Version
5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
The Holy Spirit IS the True Nature of God revealed, described, and demonstrated unambiguously by Jesus. He IS agape love, kindness, mercy, compassion, gentleness, unconditional acceptance, empathy, sympathy, tolerance, long-suffering, decency, friendliness, peacefulness, joyfulness, understanding, care, concern, solicitude, solicitousness, sensitivity, tender-heartedness, soft-heartedness, warm-heartedness, warmth, love, brotherly love, tenderness, gentleness, mercifulness, leniency, lenience, consideration, kindness, humanity, humaneness, kind-heartedness, charity, benevolence, and He is non-judgmental.
When we are "in Christ" we have access to the Father in one Spirit, (this is the Spiritual part that was missed in Ephesians).
Ephesians 2:17-18 King James Version
17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
Everything is taken out of context, and what Paul may have said to gentiles, it certainly wasn't said to Jews.
Fact number 1
There were absolutely no Gentile converts for 100 years after Jesus died, and a Gentile converting to Judaism wadnt even imagined.
Ten years later Peter had his unbelievable dream that couldnt hardly be believed and the disciples themselves were in doubt.
So now we have believing Jews witnessing to non Jewush Israelis who then converted to Judaism in hordes and they became as Jews, ten years of thus.
Paul would speak to a Jew one way, and then he would speak in another way to a non Jewish Israeli in complete support of circumcising every Israeli he could.
Then great gatherings were formed between the Jew and the non Jewish Israeli which would hold a special bondage of sheer culture.
Carneleous was the very first Gentile convert and you can know for sure that what was taught and demanded of the Gentile convert didnt look anything like Paul would have treated Jews and fellow non Jewish Israrlis.
You cant take everything said by Paul and present it either way as fact.
Everything is taken out of context, and what Paul may have said to gentiles, it certainly wasn't said to Jews.
Fact number 1
There were absolutely no Gentile converts for 100 years after Jesus died, and a Gentile converting to Judaism wadnt even imagined.
Ten years later Peter had his unbelievable dream that couldnt hardly be believed and the disciples themselves were in doubt.
So now we have believing Jews witnessing to non Jewush Israelis who then converted to Judaism in hordes and they became as Jews, ten years of thus.
Paul would speak to a Jew one way, and then he would speak in another way to a non Jewish Israeli in complete support of circumcising every Israeli he could.
Then great gatherings were formed between the Jew and the non Jewish Israeli which would hold a special bondage of sheer culture.
Carneleous was the very first Gentile convert and you can know for sure that what was taught and demanded of the Gentile convert didnt look anything like Paul would have treated Jews and fellow non Jewish Israrlis.
You cant take everything said by Paul and present it either way as fact.
I am surprised that Fact #1 only took 100 years! We have no conception (and respect for our ancestors prevents even contemplating it) of the degree of tribalism, bigotry, insularity, and exclusivity that dominated the mindset of our ancestors, Hanni. The modern versions of those attitudes are but a shadow of their former "glory" in antiquity. It is astounding that any semblance of Jesus's egalitarianism in religions survives to this day. Despite all our many and varied differences, we are supposed to become one in Spirit -- the Holy Spirit of agape as revealed and demonstrated by Jesus on the Cross.
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Did Paul Deceive Christians?
