Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
and again,,,I lost where you think I differ with you.
Perhaps I will write my views again,,,and see if you say "Right on" or "No way"?
You get up in the morning, you lay in bed and you believe that God is telling you to get up and do something, something very important.
You sit up, swing your legs over to the side of the bed, then stop.
You don't know what leg to put on the floor first?
Is it God's will that your left foot hit the floor first?
Is it God's will that your other leg got first?
You are unsure, but deep down you know God does have a will, and that there is one foot that God wants you to put on the floor first and not the other...
But you dont know, you cant read God's mind, so there you sit and pray and pray.
You know that if you put your right foot on the floor first, and learn that God wanted you to put the other down first, that this would be a sin.
You dont want to sin...
So there you sit and pray...
and God also sits watching the clock tic, as you worry about this silly thing with all our heart.
My view of this , is that like the person we will marry, God has given us free will and the freedom we need to make up our own minds, within his over-all guidelines.
To think that God has only one girl for you to marry is as silly as thinking God wanted only one foot to hit the floor first...
Get out of bed and get to work!
Pick your own wife!
There's more freedom in the spirit; that scenario portrays fear rather than faith that He is leading us. Sounds presumptuous and scary in this day and age, but believing that He is going before you is part of the life of the believer.
That, and giving Him the glory for the outcome - no matter if you classify it good or bad.
so...in my story, you would sit in bed untill a giant hand came down from heaven and pointed to one of your feet, and then and only then would you step onto the floor?
fine, but now you are at the door...
What hand shall you reach for the doorknob with?....
ahh, better start to pray about it, cuz you want to make sure that you do the right thing, and if God is in control then he has one and only one hand in mind ....
My point?
My point is that the whole "God is in control and has one girl all picked out for me to mary" way of thinking breaks down sooner or later as fear of picking the wrong girl, or the wrong foot, or the wrong anything totally consumes the Christian.
A far better idea is to think that God has given you free will to make up your own mind. and that as long as you stay within the guidelines found in the Bible, you will be blessed.
so...in the real world that means what?
It means you can go ahead and marry Becky, and trust God will bless you.
or...
Go and marry Kim, and God will still bless you just as much
or...Go ahead and marry Nancy and still expect God will bless your union just as much as he would have blessed the union with any other girl....
What does this mean?
What Im getting at is that God's control of His creation is not stumped by human free will.
God is not so weak that a little human free will over powers his plans.
People that think, either God is in full control or else man is, have a poor image of both God and man...
It was 20+ years ago , while I lived for a time in Seattle...
A friend of mine was talking about his mission for our church that he and his wife had just returned from.
They had been gone from America for over 4 years and we were glad to see them back safe.
Then later he talked to me about what the whole thing was like, and at some point in the conversation we got on the subject of man's free will and god's control of His creation.
He had an interesting point of view on the topic.
It seems that while he and his wife were getting ready to enter the christian mission field, (raising cash, you raise your own cash it turns out) that they were never sure where they were going to end up at.
The guy said that he and his wife were 100% committed to joining a mission, but had no idea where they world be sent to.
They were always under the false idea that at some point, someone would just tell them where they would be going and they would go.
But he found out as they got near the date to sign up that you get to pick the spot on the earth where you wish to go and start a mission.
But he and his wife did not know where they would go.
They prayed and prayed, but never felt they got a clear answer.
The day came when they had to go to a school and learn the language of the country they would go to, but they could not answer the question on the form, so they sat in this office and just looked down at the form for a long time.
The choice came down to two things.
They could sign up to go to South America, and in that case today they would join a Spanish class and learn that tongue..
Or...
Or they would sign up to go to Africa and so today they would need to join some type of language class for what ever area in Africa was open for missions.
When they could not fill out the form, the person in charge seem to understand their situation and told them that both classes would start in a few moments.
He told them that both class rooms were down at the end of this long hall way.
The door to the left would teach Spanish, and so that would mean they would go to South America.
The door to the right would teach them a tongue spoken in Africa and if they went in that door that would mean they were on their way to Africa for 4 years.
They stood in the hallway between both doors.
One to the left, one to the right.
So I asked him what they did?
He told me that it suddenly came to him, that it didnt matter at all what door he picked.
He had been so worried that he needed to pick the right place, and now to pick the right door...
But now he saw the real truth...
It did not matter what door he went in, it did not matter what country he went to.
It did not matter because he knew that God would be there, and would find a way to bless him no matter what country he and his wife went to.
So he just reached out and grabbed the first door handle closest to him and walked in...
so...in my story, you would sit in bed untill a giant hand came down from heaven and pointed to one of your feet, and then and only then would you step onto the floor?
fine, but now you are at the door...
What hand shall you reach for the doorknob with?....
ahh, better start to pray about it, cuz you want to make sure that you do the right thing, and if God is in control then he has one and only one hand in mind ....
Absolutely not! Where is faith in your scenario? The entire point of following Him is to decrease while He increases in us - God in us - who is our strength and wisdom.
If we proceed in faith and find that our decisions were poor/foolish, we learn from it that we aren't yet where we need to be; but that doesn't keep us from living, and moving, and having our being in Him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by alanMolstad
My point?
My point is that the whole "God is in control and has one girl all picked out for me to mary" way of thinking breaks down sooner or later as fear of picking the wrong girl, or the wrong foot, or the wrong anything totally consumes the Christian.
A far better idea is to think that God has given you free will to make up your own mind. and that as long as you stay within the guidelines found in the Bible, you will be blessed.
so...in the real world that means what?
It means you can go ahead and marry Becky, and trust God will bless you.
or...
Go and marry Kim, and God will still bless you just as much
or...Go ahead and marry Nancy and still expect God will bless your union just as much as he would have blessed the union with any other girl....
We're talking about a very real-world situation for many, I understand (my first marriage is alive and well, btw). But personally, the commitment of the union to Him, and the declaration that:
1) It IS His will that we be together
2) Any failure of this union is due to our disconnection from Him and each other, not a cosmic miscalculation
3) No matter what, He will bring our betterment out of this
This is a very strengthening practice for my wife and I, and it keeps us humble in all times.
Quote:
Originally Posted by alanMolstad
What does this mean?
What Im getting at is that God's control of His creation is not stumped by human free will.
God is not so weak that a little human free will over powers his plans.
People that think, either God is in full control or else man is, have a poor image of both God and man...
I agree, and I don't mean to portray man as a robot; but rather a belief more in balance with the frailty of man, and the God of Daniel 4:35, Isaiah 43-45, etc. There is simply too much scriptural evidence that God overturns the ways of man in order to accomplish His desires.
But he and his wife did not know where they would go.
I appreciate the story, and agree with the summary. I was taught - and do believe - that when we don't hear Him directly, we go on faith with the knowledge that yes, He will direct and bless our desire to follow Him. Besides, that is the essence of faith.
I also believe this: God speaks - now one way, now another - though man may not perceive it. (Job 33:14) I say this not to point out our guilt when we don't hear Him (though we often are guilty of such), but that I believe He "drops" things into our spirit daily without our knowledge. Remember, just as God is spirit, so are we. There is much more activity of a spiritual nature than we are accustomed to in this natural realm we were born into.
To sum up my belief, I would gladly learn on the day I stand before Him that I gave Him more credit than was due, than to short change the King. I'm sure we agree that it is crucial for us to think rightly about God.
It was 20+ years ago , while I lived for a time in Seattle...
A friend of mine was talking about his mission for our church that he and his wife had just returned from.
They had been gone from America for over 4 years and we were glad to see them back safe.
Then later he talked to me about what the whole thing was like, and at some point in the conversation we got on the subject of man's free will and god's control of His creation.
He had an interesting point of view on the topic.
It seems that while he and his wife were getting ready to enter the christian mission field, (raising cash, you raise your own cash it turns out) that they were never sure where they were going to end up at.
The guy said that he and his wife were 100% committed to joining a mission, but had no idea where they world be sent to.
They were always under the false idea that at some point, someone would just tell them where they would be going and they would go.
But he found out as they got near the date to sign up that you get to pick the spot on the earth where you wish to go and start a mission.
But he and his wife did not know where they would go.
They prayed and prayed, but never felt they got a clear answer.
The day came when they had to go to a school and learn the language of the country they would go to, but they could not answer the question on the form, so they sat in this office and just looked down at the form for a long time.
The choice came down to two things.
They could sign up to go to South America, and in that case today they would join a Spanish class and learn that tongue..
Or...
Or they would sign up to go to Africa and so today they would need to join some type of language class for what ever area in Africa was open for missions.
When they could not fill out the form, the person in charge seem to understand their situation and told them that both classes would start in a few moments.
He told them that both class rooms were down at the end of this long hall way.
The door to the left would teach Spanish, and so that would mean they would go to South America.
The door to the right would teach them a tongue spoken in Africa and if they went in that door that would mean they were on their way to Africa for 4 years.
They stood in the hallway between both doors.
One to the left, one to the right.
So I asked him what they did?
He told me that it suddenly came to him, that it didnt matter at all what door he picked.
He had been so worried that he needed to pick the right place, and now to pick the right door...
But now he saw the real truth...
It did not matter what door he went in, it did not matter what country he went to. It did not matter because he knew that God would be there, and would find a way to bless him no matter what country he and his wife went to.
So he just reached out and grabbed the first door handle closest to him and walked in...
They went to Africa....
Amen........wonderful testimony!
I truly believe for a child of God.....whoever, whatever, whenever, God is there!
If I take the upper road God is there, if I take the lower road God is there.
For with God.....it is a walk of faith, not by sight (not looking for a sign of His will)
One who believes and completely trusts in Him, no matter what in their life, His will, will come to pass and that all their life paths do work together for His Glory, to bring us closer to His Heart and to that great and glorious day of our Lord and Savior Christ Jesus!
We will from time to time face a question: Do I turn left or Right?
The problem is, that we dont really know what direction we should go in.
This leads us to try to dump the problem onto God.
The way we do this is to start to pray about things and hope for "A Sign" (cue angel music)
However as anyone who has ever faced a big question before and tried to rely on only prayer for their guidance, answers to prayer don't show up with a big hand reaching down from above with the words "this way" stamped on the side of the fingers.
Mostly what happens is that the person goes with his own "gut feeling" about what direction to next go in, and if it works out okay? from then on they call their gut feeling - "The Lord's Will"
I don't buy into any of that stuff.
The truth is this, (In my view)
The truth is that in most cases its left by God completely up to us to decide such questions about our life.
There is no sign given as to what direction we should walk in.
The reason is, is that no matter what happens, God is already there.
And, God already has found a way to bless you, no matter the foolish things we do.
Left or right, it don't really matter in the end.
So when it comes to the question of what girl a boy should marry?
That answer is up to that boy and girl.
It really does not matter.
asking Becky to marry you, is all the same as asking Pat to marry you in God's eyes....
God gave us free will to help us make up our minds about such questions.
So in other words, there is no point in thinking that God has already picked out one and only one girl for the boy to marry...
Because, it really does not matter who we marry, the blessings from God do not change.
Last edited by alanMolstad; 10-03-2009 at 09:28 AM..
We will from time to time face a question: Do I turn left or Right?
The problem is, that we dont really know what direction we should go in.
This leads us to try to dump the problem onto God.
The way we do this is to start to pray about things and hope for "A Sign" (cue angel music)
However as anyone who has ever faced a big question before and tried to rely on only prayer for their guidance, answers to prayer don't show up with a big hand reaching down from above with the words "this way" stamped on the side of the fingers.
Mostly what happens is that the person goes with his own "gut feeling" about what direction to next go in, and if it works out they hang a sign on their gut feeling and from then on call it, "The Lord's Will"
I don't buy into any of that stuff.
The truth is this, (In my view)
The truth is that in most cases its left by God completely up to us to decide such questions about our life.
There is no sign given as to what direction we should walk in.
The reason is, is that no matter what happens, God is already there.
And, God already has found a way to bless you, no matter the foolish things we do.
Left or right, it don't really matter in the end.
Brings to mind the phrase, "God's perfect will", which suggests there are multiple paths which may be acceptable, but only one which qualifies as wholly pleasing to Him.
I believe that to be true, but I also believe in a timetable that would seem endless to us, for Him to weave it into that perfect plan.
While yes, we can please Him and displease Him, I want to be more pliable in the hands of my maker, so that He does the choosing while I may or not feel led.
Is He not able (and faithful) to do so?
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
