Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
but scripture does say that one must Believe and be baptized....how can a baby do this....and scripture does not say that they are exempt from this.
Richard, do you believe babies go to hell? Or do you believe all babies that die are elect?
I would suggest if you don't know, or if you think babies can go to hell, you may not have a good understanding of God's love and God's justice.
As to your question, yes scripture says one must believe and be baptized in fire (the holy spirit). Don't you think all the babies will believe when they are bowing to Christ, calling him Lord and swearing allegiance to him?
Furthermore do you think they will still actually be babies? Personally I think babies who die will still have to grow and mature - God will see that it happens IMHO.
Thankyou Richard, it appears you have a good understanding of the reformed/Calvinist view.
Compare Tigetmax's posts with Richard1965's. From the few posts I have seen of Richard1965, it appears he represents the reformed/Calvinist view well. Namely:
- God has decreed everything that will happen
- God has even ordained and decreed sin
- God actually intended for the fall to happen; He didn't just grudgingly allow it
- God has elected some for salvation, and the rest for damnation to eternal hell
- effectively God has predestined who will be saved and who will be tormented for eternity
- this is somehow "just" because everyone has sinned
Yet this resolves down to the following problem:
God decrees people to be sinners and then torments them for eternity for being exactly as He created them. That is not justice - its injustice.
This is what my OP was directed at.
Even more cogent . . . this would make all of creation and human endeavor a completely PURPOSELESS, POINTLESS AND MEANINGLESS enactment of role playing . . . no different than the purposeless, meaningless and pointless view of an indifferent atheism.
No he doesn't . Everything He does is for a purpose and an end . There's is no scripture to support such a statement , yes i know the Psalm 115 verse, but it's misinterpreted.
Even more cogent . . . this would make all of creation and human endeavor a completely PURPOSELESS, POINTLESS AND MEANINGLESS enactment of role playing . . . no different than the purposeless, meaningless and pointless view of an indifferent atheism.
I disagree with you there Mystic, as God has a great purpose for creation. But at least we both agree God's purpose is not to burn most of humanity forever.
I disagree with you there Mystic, as God has a great purpose for creation. But at least we both agree God's purpose is not to burn most of humanity forever.
Peace out...
No problem. I simply do not believe that I am simply acting out a predetermined script . . . sorry but that makes no sense whatsoever. It is no different from the atheist determinists who believe we are driven by purely automatic reactions of chemistry and physics. I am no ROBOT.
A Calvinist vs a mystic who doesn't believe in the words of the bible but the spirit of the words. This is going to be good.
Heh, Heh, Heh.....The Bible says what it says, just because i was raised differently with current societal views on things and they are of the majority opinion, does not mean when i see the Truth that i will reject it because it does not fit with my conditioned views on how things should be.....I will embrace the Truth because that is what God has led me to do...those that attempt to pervert scripture to conform to their viewpoint are creating their own god and i have serious doubt to whether they are truly christian.....remember Christ will seperate the goats from the sheep....the great White Throne Judgment is for the others that don't fit the bill.
Richard I know. "we love Him because He first loved us" but I do see verses that "contradict". I call these paradoxes like which came first regeneration or repentance?...and I am fine with it. I am at peace with it. I have accepted that we cannot fully comprehend even the basic of doctrines taught to our little ones in Sunday School.
simple...how can a man repent if he is not regenerated for an unregenerant man wants nothing to do with God until God regenerates him, then the will is there to repent....as James said Faith without works is dead Faith......i.e. it is a self imposed Faith and not a Devine imposed Faith....
Richard, do you believe babies go to hell? Or do you believe all babies that die are elect?
I would suggest if you don't know, or if you think babies can go to hell, you may not have a good understanding of God's love and God's justice.
As to your question, yes scripture says one must believe and be baptized in fire (the holy spirit). Don't you think all the babies will believe when they are bowing to Christ, calling him Lord and swearing allegiance to him?
Furthermore do you think they will still actually be babies? Personally I think babies who die will still have to grow and mature - God will see that it happens IMHO.
You are assuming that babies don't go to Hell, but where are your scripture references to support that?
My scripture references support the fact that without regeneration, belief and baptism no one gets into Heaven.....and if we are all born into Sin and need to be converted before we get into Heaven, then how does a baby do that?
No he doesn't . Everything He does is for a purpose and an end . There's is no scripture to support such a statement , yes i know the Psalm 115 verse, but it's misinterpreted.
You are incorrect...Is that what UR does, just chalk it up every time they don't agree to misinterpretation, or better yet, mistranslation?
Chaphets - for His desire.....His Glory...as He pleases.
Your claim is false and bent on the carnal mind.
Stop imposing your will and thoughts into the text.
Even more cogent . . . this would make all of creation and human endeavor a completely PURPOSELESS, POINTLESS AND MEANINGLESS enactment of role playing . . . no different than the purposeless, meaningless and pointless view of an indifferent atheism.
But we are not the reason for the season......this whole thing is to glorify Himself......
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
