Quote:
Originally Posted by caucazhin
Calvinists have a few very big problems
They really cant be sure if they're saved and therefore cant be sure if God really loves them
And if they're not really sure if they're loved & saved how can they offer salvation to anyone else or tell someone else about Gods love & salvation for them ??
It becomes the gospel of MAYBE & BUT
MAYBE God chose you before the foundations of the world
MAYBE God loves you
MAYBE Jesus even died for your sins
BUT we cant be sure and we have no way of verifying it
One thing is for sure you Calvinists have absolutely no right whatsoever to tell anyone on the face of the earth that God loves them and that Jesus died for an individuals sins because you have no way of verifying this unless He died for everybody.....
And the funny thing is thats what the whole "GOOD NEWS" is based upon.
That He died for everyones transgressions and forgiveness is available to everyone both Jew & Gentile...
MAYBE is not "GOOD NEWS"
And another thing...If jesus told us to love and pray for our enemies then that really means to love everyone under the harshest of circumstances.
He not only tells us to but commands us to...
And if He's commanding us to love everybody then that means He loves everybody.
NOT some of us.....ALL of us
"While we were yet sinners Christ died for us"
LIMITED ATONEMENT is the devils tool to bring in doubts,maybe's and buts
And since God is Love and the source of all true love... how could He tell us to love and forgive everybody if He hadnt....
That would be impossible...
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Just about everything you say here about Calvinism is wrong. I don't know if it's out of ignorance of the subject or that the ideas are just offensive to you regardless of the clear teachings of the bible.
Your first point is so far off the mark that it would be laughable if it were not just sad. The 5th point of Calvinism the P is the perserverence of the
saints. Not only does this doctorine assure the believer of salvation in the hear and now it gives him comfort to know with a certainty that ,"He that has begun a good work in us is faithful to bring it to completion." In other words the Believer is "assured of his salvation".
Your statements of "Maybe or But" Are totally off the mark. There is NO maybe about it. God chose me, loves me and Jesus died for me.
Has it never struck you as a strange thing that reformed churched have so many missionaries and outreach programs? That they have always been a major force for evangilizing the world. If what you say had any truth to it at all then that would not be the case.
God chooses and God saves and God loves who he will and it's up to me as a Christian to obey his commands. Preach the gospel to all the world.
Limited atonement is the TRUTH of the gospel. If it offends you that God has choosen a people unto himself to show His special favour too, then why does that offend. Most that find it offensive do so out of human pride. They somehow think that God has to exhibit a character that they can reconcile how they think God should be from their human understanding. IT'S NOT FAIR, they cry that God would not give everyone an equal chance to believe and make their own choice to believe. Do you know how far that is from eveything that is clearly taught in the bible? Do you not know that the unsaved are DEAD in their sin and do not have any ability to regenerate themselves? Do you realize that Christ's sacrifice was a perfect sacrifice and it will save ALL of his people. Christ did not die in vain and if the atonement was for all His death would be in vain in Billions of cases.
Do you believe that the will of fallen sinful man can trump that of all almighty God? If you believe that God loves sinners and Christ died for those who will not believe then the will of those people is more powerful than God's. God wants them to come to saving faith but they won't. What nonsence. This is a picture of a weak ineffectual God that can do nothing without the consent of a man.
"While we were yet sinners Christ died for us". US his people, the ones that God has given him. His adopted people. Do adopted people get chosen or do they chose.
Check out Chose and chosen in your concordance also elected and election. Read the entire book of Ephesians and pray for some understanding and then maybe you will have a little better understanding of the "Doctorines of Grace".
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