Salvation is Through Faith Alone In Christ Alone; Not by your Works (history, apostles)
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If Salvation is a gift and Gods gifts are "irrevocable" cannot be lost, how can someone lose "True salvation" God gives True believers the seal or (stamp) of the Holy Spirit as a promise and that word seal is the same meaning as the stamp on the decree of a Kings scroll.. it cannot be removed. I did a thorough study of this subject when I first came to Christ. And I mean thorough.
You guys are taking scripture out of context. What fear you must live in, geez if you make one false move, sin one too many times you are not saved anymore? Come on...what kind of a loving Father would do that sort of thing.
I have also studied this subject thoroughly. You can spin Jesus words any way you like to make it fit your paradigm but I prefer to take Jesus at his word and his word only. When he says the branch that is in him (that's believers sister), those who do not abide in him, by continually keeping the commandments, will be cut off and thrown outside into the fire....what does that mean to you??? It means you are LOST. Repenting, turning from sin and living in obedience to Gods commandments is not an option....it is required according to Jesus. So who are you going to believe....Jesus or those who spin his words into their doctrine?
I'm going to refer you to the parable of the virgins....did some of them run out of oil (The Holy Spirit)???? Yes....they did and what happened to them? These are virgins (washed clean by Jesus blood)....but their oil ran out (they had the Holy Spirit and they lost it) and they were locked out of the kingdom....are you comprehending this?
I don't live in fear at all....when I am convicted of any sin, I repent and turn from it and all is well. As you continually abide in Christ...this get easier and easier.
The only ones I can see who live in fear are those who want to continue in their sin and not change. Jesus died to pay the price for our sin but he cannot cover it until one repents of it and turns to him....and he will continue to keep one clean but only if one confesses and repents as one sins....sooner or later one will be able to live without sinning....this is the road he showed us....the example we are to follow....deny yourself completely and live in obedience. This is not hard to understand....Jesus made it as uncomplicated as he could for us. Always keep in mind that many are called but only a few are chosen....we have to strive (this requires action from us) to enter into the narrow gate....we will not get through it walking the broad path.
Wow, I might as well retire, ChristyGrl's got it covered...
You know as well as I do that they will put quite a spin on Jesus words....just like they did in the Prodigal son....because he didn't really "come to his senses" like Jesus said he did.....there was some kind of divine calling to go back to his father (that is nowhere in that particular scripture but we sure should believe it)....didn't you see that?? ROFL
Like I said....he uses the words of Jesus only....check it out and decide for yourself.
I didn't read the books you are referring to but it looks like an interesting site:
"A new book that focuses on Jesus' words on salvation (justification and atonement are by repentance from sin and obedience besides faith, and not from faith alone), pursuing the line of reasoning that led Dietrich Bonhoeffer in Cost of Discipleship (1937) to proclaim Jesus taught a gospel of "costly grace."
I didn't read the books you are referring to but it looks like an interesting site:
"A new book that focuses on Jesus' words on salvation (justification and atonement are by repentance from sin and obedience besides faith, and not from faith alone), pursuing the line of reasoning that led Dietrich Bonhoeffer in Cost of Discipleship (1937) to proclaim Jesus taught a gospel of "costly grace."
That is the website I was referring to Just....it's an awesome site and nothing but scripture is used....Jesus words only. I have just started reading the Cost of Discipleship and that is also an awesome book...if only we all could live the way Dietrich Bonhoeffer did....he was a true picture of what a Christian is supposed to be and his life shows me how far I still have yet to go.
I'm not where I want to be but I not where I used to be and that is what living in Christ is all about.
Here's a link to an interesting site with a detailed historical timeline of how the doctrine of salvation by faith alone developed from Marcionite teachings long after the Lord's Apostles were killed off.
"160-325 A.D. Church leaders such as Polycarp, Barnabas, Hermas, Clement of Alexandria, Origen, Hippolytus, Cyprian and Lanctatius speak out on correct salvation doctrine which Marcionites falsify. “The early Christians universally believed that works or obedience play an essential role in our salvation....Early Christians...believed that a ‘saved’ person could still end up being lost.”
Here's a link to an interesting site with a detailed historical timeline of how the doctrine of salvation by faith alone developed from Marcionite teachings long after the Lord's Apostles were killed off.
"160-325 A.D. Church leaders such as Polycarp, Barnabas,Hermas,Clement of Alexandria, Origen, Hippolytus,Cyprian and Lanctatius speak out on correct salvation doctrine which Marcionites falsify. “The early Christians universally believed that works or obedience play an essential role in our salvation....Early Christians...believed that a ‘saved’ person could still end up being lost.”
And they believed rightly because Jesus said you could....salvation is by no means secure and the cost of grace is not cheap, easy or free....Jesus told us to count the cost of following him and the cost is high....it requires all from us....not just lip service.
I have also studied this subject thoroughly. You can spin Jesus words any way you like to make it fit your paradigm but I prefer to take Jesus at his word and his word only. When he says the branch that is in him (that's believers sister), those who do not abide in him, by continually keeping the commandments, will be cut off and thrown outside into the fire....what does that mean to you??? It means you are LOST. Repenting, turning from sin and living in obedience to Gods commandments is not an option....it is required according to Jesus. So who are you going to believe....Jesus or those who spin his words into their doctrine?
I'm going to refer you to the parable of the virgins....did some of them run out of oil (The Holy Spirit)???? Yes....they did and what happened to them? These are virgins (washed clean by Jesus blood)....but their oil ran out (they had the Holy Spirit and they lost it) and they were locked out of the kingdom....are you comprehending this?
I don't live in fear at all....when I am convicted of any sin, I repent and turn from it and all is well. As you continually abide in Christ...this get easier and easier.
The only ones I can see who live in fear are those who want to continue in their sin and not change. Jesus died to pay the price for our sin but he cannot cover it until one repents of it and turns to him....and he will continue to keep one clean but only if one confesses and repents as one sins....sooner or later one will be able to live without sinning....this is the road he showed us....the example we are to follow....deny yourself completely and live in obedience. This is not hard to understand....Jesus made it as uncomplicated as he could for us. Always keep in mind that many are called but only a few are chosen....we have to strive (this requires action from us) to enter into the narrow gate....we will not get through it walking the broad path.
No need for the referral Christy I know of the subject matter. Thanks anyway.
Last edited by Raelyn28; 01-15-2010 at 06:56 PM..
Reason: I felt my wording was rude and unloving. Deleted it.
Don't waste your time with the parables. I am not interested and pretty much done with the legalism on this thread. You are white-washed tombs that look good on the outside with all your works that you boast about. How dare you judge me when you don't even know me or my lifestyle??
Take the log out of your own eye or you will not be able to take the speck out of your brothers/sisters...
So....I shouldn't waste my time reading and listening to Jesus words?
Oh my...tsk...tsk...tsk.....whose words do you read and listen to?
I don't recall ever mentioning anything about judging you or your particular lifestyle...so please don't attack me as if I did. If you are feeling convicted about something I said....seek the Lord and he will straighten it out for you.
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, geez if you make one false move, sin one too many times you are not saved anymore? Come on...what kind of a loving Father would do that sort of thing.
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