True FAITH works RIGHTEOUSNESS.. concluding the faith vs works debate (Gospel, hell)
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
The two go together and are a package. The fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, and temperance. He produces the love which suffers long, is kind, is not puffed up, doesn't behave itself unseemly, doesn't seek it's own, believes all things, endures all things, etc
The Spirit is received through Faith. True faith yields self allowing God's Spirit to work in and through you. Christ's body is still RIGHT HERE through His born again believers and He still is doing the Father's work through us.
Those led by the Spirit don't do those things they would normally. Just as Christ, it's not in their nature. The desire is to obey the will of God in obedience living under guidance of His Spirit.
This settles the entire confusion between Faith and Works. True Faith produces the fruits of righteousness.
Whatsoever is not of Faith is sin. Those in the wilderness that were destroyed in is said "believed not". They did not enter into the promised land due to "unbelief". Some translations say "disobedience". The word actually means "obstinate opposition to the Will of God". It says they entered not in because of unbelief and then starts to list various sins - idolatry, fornication, murmering, etc.
This is because unbelief is disobedience and vise versa. The two go together as a package.
Unbelief produces the fruit of disobedience unto sin and death.
Belief produces the fruit of obedience unto righteousness and life.
One that is producing the works of the flesh and transgressing is not believing.
The two go together and are a package. The fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, and temperance. He produces the love which suffers long, is kind, is not puffed up, doesn't behave itself unseemly, doesn't seek it's own, believes all things, endures all things, etc
The Spirit is received through Faith. True faith yields self allowing God's Spirit to work in and through you. Christ's body is still RIGHT HERE through His born again believers and He still is doing the Father's work through us.
Those led by the Spirit don't do those things they would normally. Just as Christ, it's not in their nature. The desire is to obey the will of God in obedience living under guidance of His Spirit.
This settles the entire confusion between Faith and Works. True Faith produces the fruits of righteousness.
Whatsoever is not of Faith is sin. Those in the wilderness that were destroyed in is said "believed not". They did not enter into the promised land due to "unbelief". Some translations say "disobedience". The word actually means "obstinate opposition to the Will of God". It says they entered not in because of unbelief and then starts to list various sins - idolatry, fornication, murmering, etc.
This is because unbelief is disobedience and vise versa. The two go together as a package.
Unbelief produces the fruit of disobedience unto sin and death.
Belief produces the fruit of obedience unto righteousness and life.
One that is producing the works of the flesh and transgressing is not believing.
I agree. That is the theory. Where are the borders between walking in the Spirit and walking in the flesh? When the so-called spiritfilled believers claim they are sealed and cannot loose their salvation. What applies to such a pastor that lives 4 years in adultery and says that was the will of God? Or to a bible teacher that commits adultary, devorse and marries her and writes a book, how god saved me from my mariage? Can a born again believer or a sealed believer be lost?
I agree. That is the theory. Where are the borders between walking in the Spirit and walking in the flesh? When the so-called spiritfilled believers claim they are sealed and cannot loose their salvation. What applies to such a pastor that lives 4 years in adultery and says that was the will of God? Or to a bible teacher that commits adultary, devorse and marries her and writes a book, how god saved me from my mariage? Can a born again believer or a sealed believer be lost?
I also know I have not walked after the Spirit all the time. My old carnal rebellious nature rose its ugly head and the old man resurfaced again. God has not cast me off. He is still working. He's been kind and loving when I haven't been.
There are many people (I will suggest ALL people) that I'm sure can relate. So if one could lose their Salvation, which I'm not 100 percent sure they can because the foundation for salvation is God's Faithfulness, God is longsuffering and patient with us. Forty years he grieved with Israel before He swore in His Wrath they would not enter His rest. Was this eternal death or physical death? Really that is the central issue when it comes to the doctrine of perserverance.
The issue I have with "arminianism" (that one must persevere to be saved) is that I do not know if the Christian CAN walk and produce fruit unless they are reacting by Faith in Jesus Christ.
No tree strains to produce fruit. Unless one KNOWS their judicial position before God in Christ by His merit, they really can't have that peace whereby we have joy thus demonstrate God's love longsuffering during our tribulation because we KNOW we are saved.
I haven't completely determined "arminianism" to be legit.
I believe the new nature of the new both results in one living after the Will of God. It won't be perfect obedience, but there will be fruit. One that appears to have rejoined Satan's rebellion never really submitting to Christ's righteousness by Faith in Him. They never had the new nature which convicts of sin correcting behavior. I don't know about you, but I certainly can't rest in going after my flesh. I am miserable. The only peace for the born-again Christian is submitting to the Will of God. So the change of nature / heart. God's works in regeneration.
We must be careful we aren't approaching God with the Law. Arminianism, strangly enough goes in circles. The claim is one is Justified by Faith, but really one is Justified by the Law as "Thou Shall not Covet" is one of the ten commandments and also on the list of those that do not inherit the Kingdom. So then we have the Galatian heresy revisited thus false gospel that is accursed in Galatians 1:8.
I know all my merit was was nothing when I believed I passed from death to life in the rebirth. All I did was in my heart call out to God receiving Christ repenting in heart. The Bible talks about those that are "Saved" - Justified (past tense continuous). If they weren't saved, then the Bible is not honest. Since God can't lie, we know this isn't the case.
Completely saved by Christ, no merit on their end.
I know one that is an arminian. What I witness is one straining to produce fruit. Loving others is really done out of selfish ambition to keep Salvation. It's not that Agape Love Christ demonstrated that sacrifices self completely not seeking it's own.
Correct doctrine produces correct living. I don't think one can live the Christian life if they have not entered God's rest through Faith in Jesus Christ alone relying on His merit not ours to present us to the Father.
As long as I'm resting in my faithfulness I have no rest. Because my faithfulness is a variable (unfortunately) while God's faithfulness is a solid foundation and rock to stand upon.
Those resting in God through Christ have entered His rest. Thus are living for the Kingdom because they know they are saved.
If one does not know they are saved, they are more likely to get discouraged and go after the world and things of the world as they make the conclusion they can't make it.
This is also very important to understand in bringing the lost to Christ. Christ receives sinners. Otherwise none us have any chance. He receives sinners and then cleans them up. All by the power of God. Saved by Grace. Kept by Grace.
Last edited by Mikelee81; 05-18-2013 at 10:34 AM..
I also know I have not walked after the Spirit all the time. My old carnal rebellious nature rose its ugly head and the old man resurfaced again. God has not cast me off. He is still working. He's been kind and loving when I haven't been.
There are many people (I will suggest ALL people) that I'm sure can relate. So if one could lose their Salvation, which I'm not 100 percent sure they can because the foundation for salvation is God's Faithfulness, God is longsuffering and patient with us. Forty years he grieved with Israel before He swore in His Wrath they would not enter His rest. Was this eternal death or physical death? Really that is the central issue when it comes to the doctrine of perserverance.
The issue I have with "arminianism" (that one must persevere to be saved) is that I do not know if the Christian CAN walk and produce fruit unless they are reacting by Faith in Jesus Christ.
No tree strains to produce fruit. Unless one KNOWS their judicial position before God in Christ by His merit, they really can't have that peace whereby we have joy thus demonstrate God's love longsuffering during our tribulation because we KNOW we are saved.
I haven't completely determined "arminianism" to be legit.
I believe the new nature of the new both results in one living after the Will of God. It won't be perfect obedience, but there will be fruit. One that appears to have rejoined Satan's rebellion never really submitting to Christ's righteousness by Faith in Him. They never had the new nature which convicts of sin correcting behavior. I don't know about you, but I certainly can't rest in going after my flesh. I am miserable. The only peace for the born-again Christian is submitting to the Will of God. So the change of nature / heart. God's works in regeneration.
We must be careful we aren't approaching God with the Law. Arminianism, strangly enough goes in circles. The claim is one is Justified by Faith, but really one is Justified by the Law as "Thou Shall not Covet" is one of the ten commandments and also on the list of those that do not inherit the Kingdom. So then we have the Galatian heresy revisited thus false gospel that is accursed in Galatians 1:8.
I know all my merit was was nothing when I believed I passed from death to life in the rebirth. All I did was in my heart call out to God receiving Christ repenting in heart. The Bible talks about those that are "Saved" - Justified (past tense continuous). If they weren't saved, then the Bible is not honest. Since God can't lie, we know this isn't the case.
Completely saved by Christ, no merit on their end.
I know one that is an arminian. What I witness is one straining to produce fruit. Loving others is really done out of selfish ambition to keep Salvation. It's not that Agape Love Christ demonstrated that sacrifices self completely not seeking it's own.
Correct doctrine produces correct living. I don't think one can live the Christian life if they have not entered God's rest through Faith in Jesus Christ alone relying on His merit not ours to present us to the Father.
As long as I'm resting in my faithfulness I have no rest. Because my faithfulness is a variable (unfortunately) while God's faithfulness is a solid foundation and rock to stand upon.
Those resting in God through Christ have entered His rest. Thus are living for the Kingdom because they know they are saved.
If one does not know they are saved, they are more likely to get discouraged and go after the world and things of the world as they make the conclusion they can't make it.
This is also very important to understand in bringing the lost to Christ. Christ receives sinners. Otherwise none us have any chance. He receives sinners and then cleans them up. All by the power of God. Saved by Grace. Kept by Grace.
We agree walking in the Spirit and doing the works of God, that is not a selfish walk, but of submission and obedience. So long our conscious tells us to repent, we are on the narrow way. Narrow can also be translated enduring trials. In many Christians there is rebellion, they are wounded through sin, there is pain, bitterness and hopelessness. They are on the broad road. To comfort them in their sins is not the answer, the power of the Holy Spirit is the answer. There are Christians, even ministers, that serve the Lord, that believe they are saved, but are ignorant of their sinful lifestyle that leads them into hell. The coin has two sides. We have to have the true faith in Christ. I just watched a video from John Mulinde Learn Why Jesus BANNED Heaven From Famous Uganda Pastor!
a shocking video. But I know this already a long time from witnesses that reported why Christians are in hell. We have to wake up! Times will get very serious.
God bless!
Just as Christ did works in the Fathers name so too must His followers do those same works. Because He commanded; "What I have done that is what you must do."
EG;
"The works I do in my Fathers name bear witness for me."
We agree walking in the Spirit and doing the works of God, that is not a selfish walk, but of submission and obedience. So long our conscious tells us to repent, we are on the narrow way. Narrow can also be translated enduring trials. In many Christians there is rebellion, they are wounded through sin, there is pain, bitterness and hopelessness. They are on the broad road. To comfort them in their sins is not the answer, the power of the Holy Spirit is the answer. There are Christians, even ministers, that serve the Lord, that believe they are saved, but are ignorant of their sinful lifestyle that leads them into hell. The coin has two sides. We have to have the true faith in Christ. I just watched a video from John Mulinde Learn Why Jesus BANNED Heaven From Famous Uganda Pastor!
a shocking video. But I know this already a long time from witnesses that reported why Christians are in hell. We have to wake up! Times will get very serious.
God bless!
Those saved are saved by God's imputed righteousness by their Faith in Jesus Christ.God made alive dead one's by His power circumcising the heart in the rebirth. The condition is calling upon the name of the Lord. Those that are saved are saved by God's faithfulness by trusting in Him through His promises. Those saved by God are regenerate and have a new nature. The new nature desires to do the Will of God and repents trusting in HIS faithfulness not their's.
Pure doctrine gives no room to BOAST except in the cross of Christ in the Works of God. We can't even boast of our faithfulness getting us to heaven. We can only boast in GOD's faithfulness. Obedience of Faith is a response to God's Salvation through the new birth not a condition for Salvation.
Correct doctrine produces a loving trusting relationship with God in Christ. False doctrine produces a fearful untrustworthy relationship with God (ie .. We can only trust His promises of salvation if our faithfulness meets His standard - which is a variable.)
In other words, if God was to ask you to take the land of the Giants, you would not have CONFIDENCE that God would deliver the land into your hands because in your mind you might just not be assured that YOUR faithfulness is good enough.
Thus you don't enter into the rest due to unbelief.
We aren't saved by making promises to God, but by trusting in HIS promises to us.
Knowing the Character of God, we have FULL ASSURANCE we will take the land as GOD'S Faithfulness is a solid ROCK to stand on.
True pure doctrine produces fruit. No tree strains to produce fruit.
Salvation is 100 percent of the Lord. Even the Faith is a gift of God. The faith that's given us produces righteousness. Not perfect righteousness, but over time God through HIS Spirit conforms us to the image of His Son.
We can't even boast of our faithful obedience. Obedience is a fruit of not condition for Justification. God says one is "Saved" by Faith in Christ. God does not lie. God would not have said saved if it is not a biblical term.
We have a rest and assurance for our salvation. It is GOD's faithfulness as we look to the cross and our risen Lord. When we take our eyes off of God's faithfulness onto ours we become like Peter walking on water but starting to sink.
Last edited by Mikelee81; 05-20-2013 at 05:26 PM..
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
