Understanding Christ is God theologically. (incarnation, doctrine, Revelation, beliefs)
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First and foremost let this be a warning to you. I stand by Jesus Christ is God wholly in one with the Father and the Holy Spirit. I also stand by the teaching of men far greater than I. What is posted here is from a book called Practical Christian Theology by Floyd H Barrackman. If you are one who sits at home and studies the word I highly encourage you read this book. If you are one who like I attends classes be it undergrad or graduate I encourage you to read this book.
In this warning I hope you understand two things. Before you argue against it ensure to yourself that what you might say is something that has not been said before. I assure you I am quite literate and honestly one of my greatest sins was some of the things listed on this forum to my own discredit. Chiefly false doctrines of Christ.
Second if you use the taboo that organized religon is false by any means, I submit to you to reconsider the thought and to define the view of organized religon. As even an Athiest can deny organized religon of any sort consider what you share in common with an Athiest or do you share the truth revealed in Christ? I also assert Christianity is Faith, not religon.
In short think long and hard before you type. Forums more often than not are subject to knee jerk reactions. And if you post a link take note that the internet is full of false doctrine. The credibility of any source on the internet can highly be questioned. What I list here I use only that it is practical in the basic form, but of a author far greater in knowledge than a practical study can attain.
To the Universalists I apologize. This book in no way accepts your views and honestly in my library I can find nothing to support your doctrines. I encourage you to read all the same.
Regarding Christ: His Ontological Relationship
The Father is the generator of the Son. He is the generator by an eternal act, whereby He makes the one divine essence common to Himself and to the Son. There is no creation of the Son or of new essence, nor is there a division of existing essence. By this act of generation the eternally existing essence is modified so that it is communicated to the Son in such a way that it remains undivided, yet wholly possessed by the Father and the Son individually. Jesus' human nature was generated by the Holy Spirit not the Father.
With the Son the Father is the Spirator of the Holy Spirit. Through the Son He communicates (by spiration, not by generation) the divine essence to the Holy Spirit in such a way that it remains undivided, yet wholly possessed by the three Persons individually. The Scriptures never say that the First Person is the father of the Holy Spirit.
His Ontological Ascendancy
As to the order or rank the Father is first. This does not imply that there are qualitative or substantive differences between the Persons of the Godhead, for each possesses the same subtance wholly and simultaneously with the Others. This order concerns only their constitutional relationship, with the Unbegotten Father being first.
This is theology and Biblical study in a simple way, but much greater than even the basic of home studies can account. Furthur notice what is listed below. As it is to long to list here I will generalize it some here.
The Hypostatic Union
Jesus has both divine and human natures united in one Person. In His incarnation God the Son did not assume a human person, but human nature, divinely made of Mary's substance. His incarnation made Him human, but still possessing the divine nature, He is also divine. Also the two are inseperable. Our Lord's incarnation are inseparably united, yet not mingled or confounded. When he was on Earth Jesus had complete control of His deity. But when He did not show the visible qualities of this nature, He still possessed it. When he expressed his deity in Gethseman, He was still a man, whom they bound and led away. When He manifested His humanitity, He was not less God , upholding the universe by the word of His power.
In theological history there have been five divisions of what is believed in Christ. The above is common across all doctrines and denomintations. What is listed below is listed as a false views of the above union. Note the error of erroneous teachings about Jesus, which in turn hinder salvational faith in Him. One connot be saved and refuse to accept all that the Scripture teach about him.
False views of the Hypostatic Union
1) The assertion of diety, but the denial of humanity. For more study look to The Docetae of the 2nd century.
2) The denial of diety, but the assertion of humanity. For more study look to the Ebionties of 2nd century.
3) Those who deny the one Personhood of Christ, or two natures united in one self. For more study The Nestorians of 5th century.
4) Those who deny the two natures of Jesus, making two natures as one. For more study The Eutychians of the 5th century or even the Monothelists of the 7th century.
In summary these are false views of Christ and when you argue the diety of Christ this is what you are argueing. Be aware that while many think they have the answers in the denial of Christ, only true Christians do not, and everything else is nothing new under the sun. There is no new revelation or doctrine. I learned this myself as the falses views I espoused above, all four of them, in my own ignorance. Some of you may be offended by these words, but again I encourage you to read and think first before you post. This is the core issue at the heart of division in Christianity and every other religon or atheism use it against us to the world's peril.
Jesus has both divine and human natures united in one Person. In His incarnation God the Son did not assume a human person, but human nature, divinely made of Mary's substance. His incarnation made Him human, but still possessing the divine nature, He is also divine. Also the two are inseperable. Our Lord's incarnation are inseparably united, yet not mingled or confounded. When he was on Earth Jesus had complete control of His deity. But when He did not show the visible qualities of this nature, He still possessed it. When he expressed his deity in Gethseman, He was still a man, whom they bound and led away. When He manifested His humanitity, He was not less God , upholding the universe by the word of His power.
In theological history there have been five divisions of what is believed in Christ. The above is common across all doctrines and denomintations. What is listed below is listed as a false views of the above union. Note the error of erroneous teachings about Jesus, which in turn hinder salvational faith in Him. One connot be saved and refuse to accept all that the Scripture teach about him.
False views of the Hypostatic Union
1) The assertion of diety, but the denial of humanity. For more study look to The Docetae of the 2nd century.
2) The denial of diety, but the assertion of humanity. For more study look to the Ebionties of 2nd century.
3) Those who deny the one Personhood of Christ, or two natures united in one self. For more study The Nestorians of 5th century.
4) Those who deny the two natures of Jesus, making two natures as one. For more study The Eutychians of the 5th century or even the Monothelists of the 7th century.
In summary these are false views of Christ and when you argue the diety of Christ this is what you are argueing. Be aware that while many think they have the answers in the denial of Christ, only true Christians do not, and everything else is nothing new under the sun. There is no new revelation or doctrine. I learned this myself as the falses views I espoused above, all four of them, in my own ignorance. Some of you may be offended by these words, but again I encourage you to read and think first before you post. This is the core issue at the heart of division in Christianity and every other religon or atheism use it against us to the world's peril.
I wasn't going to respond as I have little to say that couldn't or isn't discussed in other threads similar to this one but can I state the obvious? Perhaps it is only obvious to me but....
1. God and Jesus are the same nature but Jesus was human and God while God is just God.
2. Jesus and God are separate yet inseparable.
3. Humans are lower than God yet being human, God was not less divine.
And you can't:
1. Stress Jesus' humanity.
2. Overlook Jesus' deity.
3. Deny two natures.
4. Deny one person.
Yet you can call them by different names yet you can't confuse God with Jesus right?
Anyone else find the explanation of this a little hard to swallow? But it is over our heads, beyond human comprehension... One christian even states that we must accept the illogical and make the irrational rational.... How? By believing that it is too complex for our minds and employing blind faith..
First and foremost let this be a warning to you. I stand by Jesus Christ is God wholly in one with the Father and the Holy Spirit. I also stand by the teaching of men far greater than I. What is posted here is from a book called Practical Christian Theology by Floyd H Barrackman. If you are one who sits at home and studies the word I highly encourage you read this book. If you are one who like I attends classes be it undergrad or graduate I encourage you to read this book.
In this warning I hope you understand two things. Before you argue against it ensure to yourself that what you might say is something that has not been said before. I assure you I am quite literate and honestly one of my greatest sins was some of the things listed on this forum to my own discredit. Chiefly false doctrines of Christ.
Second if you use the taboo that organized religon is false by any means, I submit to you to reconsider the thought and to define the view of organized religon. As even an Athiest can deny organized religon of any sort consider what you share in common with an Athiest or do you share the truth revealed in Christ? I also assert Christianity is Faith, not religon.
In short think long and hard before you type. Forums more often than not are subject to knee jerk reactions. And if you post a link take note that the internet is full of false doctrine. The credibility of any source on the internet can highly be questioned. What I list here I use only that it is practical in the basic form, but of a author far greater in knowledge than a practical study can attain.
To the Universalists I apologize. This book in no way accepts your views and honestly in my library I can find nothing to support your doctrines. I encourage you to read all the same.
Regarding Christ: His Ontological Relationship
The Father is the generator of the Son. He is the generator by an eternal act, whereby He makes the one divine essence common to Himself and to the Son. There is no creation of the Son or of new essence, nor is there a division of existing essence. By this act of generation the eternally existing essence is modified so that it is communicated to the Son in such a way that it remains undivided, yet wholly possessed by the Father and the Son individually. Jesus' human nature was generated by the Holy Spirit not the Father.
With the Son the Father is the Spirator of the Holy Spirit. Through the Son He communicates (by spiration, not by generation) the divine essence to the Holy Spirit in such a way that it remains undivided, yet wholly possessed by the three Persons individually. The Scriptures never say that the First Person is the father of the Holy Spirit.
His Ontological Ascendancy
As to the order or rank the Father is first. This does not imply that there are qualitative or substantive differences between the Persons of the Godhead, for each possesses the same subtance wholly and simultaneously with the Others. This order concerns only their constitutional relationship, with the Unbegotten Father being first.
This is theology and Biblical study in a simple way, but much greater than even the basic of home studies can account. Furthur notice what is listed below. As it is to long to list here I will generalize it some here.
The Hypostatic Union
Jesus has both divine and human natures united in one Person. In His incarnation God the Son did not assume a human person, but human nature, divinely made of Mary's substance. His incarnation made Him human, but still possessing the divine nature, He is also divine. Also the two are inseperable. Our Lord's incarnation are inseparably united, yet not mingled or confounded. When he was on Earth Jesus had complete control of His deity. But when He did not show the visible qualities of this nature, He still possessed it. When he expressed his deity in Gethseman, He was still a man, whom they bound and led away. When He manifested His humanitity, He was not less God , upholding the universe by the word of His power.
In theological history there have been five divisions of what is believed in Christ. The above is common across all doctrines and denomintations. What is listed below is listed as a false views of the above union. Note the error of erroneous teachings about Jesus, which in turn hinder salvational faith in Him. One connot be saved and refuse to accept all that the Scripture teach about him.
False views of the Hypostatic Union
1) The assertion of diety, but the denial of humanity. For more study look to The Docetae of the 2nd century.
2) The denial of diety, but the assertion of humanity. For more study look to the Ebionties of 2nd century.
3) Those who deny the one Personhood of Christ, or two natures united in one self. For more study The Nestorians of 5th century.
4) Those who deny the two natures of Jesus, making two natures as one. For more study The Eutychians of the 5th century or even the Monothelists of the 7th century.
In summary these are false views of Christ and when you argue the diety of Christ this is what you are argueing. Be aware that while many think they have the answers in the denial of Christ, only true Christians do not, and everything else is nothing new under the sun. There is no new revelation or doctrine. I learned this myself as the falses views I espoused above, all four of them, in my own ignorance. Some of you may be offended by these words, but again I encourage you to read and think first before you post. This is the core issue at the heart of division in Christianity and every other religon or atheism use it against us to the world's peril.
Good post Aschultz. God is triune in nature. All three members of the Godhead are co-equal and co-eternal. God is three in Person and One in essence. And Jesus Christ is the unique Person of the universe. Both eternal and infinite God and true humanity in one person. This is His hypostatic union.
It is absolutely amazing that some people who profess to be Christian will not acknowledge the deity of Christ. His deity leaps out at you from the Scriptures.
I didn't read this post entirely...as I feel it is being discussed enough on other threads....and to be honest its starting to feel like a jigsaw puzzle with a lot of missing pieces.
I just find my brains are turning into jelly trying to understand all of these different explanations on 1+1+1 = 1
So if the scriptures are not 100% clear that Jesus is God (which they aren’t), and all of the verses that try to claim Jesus is God are easily disproven (which they are and most any bible scholar will agree), and the bible never says we MUST believe Jesus=God (it doesn’t), and on top of all of that—Trying to make Jesus=God makes no sense any way you try to rationalize it (whether you say they are the same, or 3 separate things that form 1 God). Why on Earth would anyone keep believing this? I just don’t get it??
It isn’t necessary for salvation to say Jesus=God. It doesn’t ever come out and say he is God directly, and Jesus even denies & explains why he calls himself the Son of God.
But eh Kat....I give you big time Kudos as you are doing a wonderful job on all of the threads explaining how Jesus is not God.
I didn't read this post entirely...as I feel it is being discussed enough on other threads....and to be honest its starting to feel like a jigsaw puzzle with a lot of missing pieces.
I just find my brains are turning into jelly trying to understand all of these different explanations on 1+1+1 = 1
So if the scriptures are not 100% clear that Jesus is God (which they aren’t), and all of the verses that try to claim Jesus is God are easily disproven (which they are and most any bible scholar will agree), and the bible never says we MUST believe Jesus=God (it doesn’t), and on top of all of that—Trying to make Jesus=God makes no sense any way you try to rationalize it (whether you say they are the same, or 3 separate things that form 1 God). Why on Earth would anyone keep believing this? I just don’t get it??
It isn’t necessary for salvation to say Jesus=God. It doesn’t ever come out and say he is God directly, and Jesus even denies & explains why he calls himself the Son of God.
But eh Kat....I give you big time Kudos as you are doing a wonderful job on all of the threads explaining how Jesus is not God.
If you do not recognize that Jesus Christ is God, then you do not know the One in whom you claim to believe and you are not saved. The Scriptures are indeed 100 percent clear on the fact that Christ is God. But people such as yourself are of such a nature as to refuse to accept it. Your statement that the verses that state that Christ is God are easily disproven is foolish. And to say that most Bible scholars agree that Christ is not God is the epitome of ignorance. Your beliefs are cultish and unscriptural. And as you will simply reject any scriptures given, I will not bother to post any.
In the light of all the Biblical revelation that Jesus Christ is God, anyone who persists in denying His deity is lost. That's all there is to it. They profess to know God and they don't know Him at all.
If you do not recognize that Jesus Christ is God, then you do not know the One in whom you claim to believe and you are not saved. The Scriptures are indeed 100 percent clear on the fact that Christ is God. But people such as yourself are of such a nature as to refuse to accept it. Your statement that the verses that state that Christ is God are easily disproven is foolish. And to say that most Bible scholars agree that Christ is not God is the epitome of ignorance. Your beliefs are cultish and unscriptural. And as you will simply reject any scriptures given, I will not bother to post any.
In the light of all the Biblical revelation that Jesus Christ is God, anyone who persists in denying His deity is lost. That's all there is to it. They profess to know God and they don't know Him at all.
Sorry Mike I disagree and am extremely confident in my pathway to God. There is no scripture that states that one needs to belive that Jesus = God in order to be saved!
I will not lash back as you did in your words as my light shines too brightly / God Bless!
Mike....your words are so evil that I think you are now talking in utter frustration because you cannot provide any scripture to state that one must believe that Jesus is God to be saved.
Mike....your words are so evil that I think you are now talking in utter frustration because you cannot provide any scripture to state that one must believe that Jesus is God to be saved.
God Bless!
Frustration? No. Evil words? No. If you do not understand that Christ is God then you do not know the One whom you profess to believe in. If you deny that Christ is God then you understand nothing about God. And if like a certain other poster on this forum, you believe that Christ did not have a virgin birth, and if like that other poster you believe that Christ may have sinned, then, again, you do not know Christ and you are not saved. Your asumption that you don't have to believe that Christ is God because the Bible doesn't say those words, is faulty. You need to understand who it is you are believing in.
Passages like Phil. 2:5-8, and John 1:1-5,14 are clear declarations of Christ's deity, and people such as yourself simply reject them and delude yourself into thinking that you know Christ. You do not.
I wasn't going to respond as I have little to say that couldn't or isn't discussed in other threads similar to this one but can I state the obvious? Perhaps it is only obvious to me but....
1. God and Jesus are the same nature but Jesus was human and God while God is just God.
2. Jesus and God are separate yet inseparable.
3. Humans are lower than God yet being human, God was not less divine.
And you can't:
1. Stress Jesus' humanity.
2. Overlook Jesus' deity.
3. Deny two natures.
4. Deny one person.
Yet you can call them by different names yet you can't confuse God with Jesus right?
Anyone else find the explanation of this a little hard to swallow? But it is over our heads, beyond human comprehension... One christian even states that we must accept the illogical and make the irrational rational.... How? By believing that it is too complex for our minds and employing blind faith..
I would suggest you reread it again. I wholly encourage you to read this. Jesus was both human and divine. Honestly and with complete respect perhaps you are not at the state of reason that many are? Honestly I say this more so because honestly not to long ago my Christianity was yours. My truths were yours.
Consider this. Is not every child born into sin thru a father and mother? Truely as we are born in sin and resemble that sin, Christ was of God. God poured all that he was into Jesus so that we may see him as God, but also as man. If you saw God could you comprehend him. He is infinite while you are finite. Jesus was God so that man could see him. He came down to our level as we clearly could not step up to his.
I submit to you in this country there is a thing I refer to as The Big Brother Syndrome. It has carried over into Christianity. Do not assume that your ideas of Universalism are anything new. They are not an epiphany. They are as old as time. I have no doubt you strive to be greater than what you are. I was there. If I did not see myself in your words then I would not put forth the effort. What I have given you is, but a small taste of true scriptural study. I scorned it. I hated it. But let me tell you what I have seen is beyond anything I could have hoped or dreamed.
And while it may have been debated on this forum over and over again. I would let you know I was not brought here be a Christian. I was brought here by an Athiest. You see I dont simply come to Christian forums, but I try to get those who are lost. Truely I say to you I could not stop doing this as I could stop breathing.
I am sorry Mike...but YOU do not know.....you should check out the other threads about this TONS of evidence to back our claim that Jesus is not God!
Miss Kat this is a false assumption. To assert by this forum something as true with evidence, that contains a smidgen of scripture and tons of opinion points to more armchair quarterbacking then true theological study. More often that not the internet is rife with opinion and devoid of true thought. My favorite term is "Free Thinker" which more often that not is an excuse to hold ones own view than face facts by persons who are more learned then they are. Its like they cant face someone who might know more. In essence in the US its a mixture of Christianity and Democracy. It is not unique and ultimately leads to Postmodernism or when faced with facts deny the facts.
Consider this, I did not come to this forum because a Christian showed me. It was an Athiest.
When using the word of God I encourage you to truely learn to seperate what is man and what is God. I had to do this. It is in my very nature to think all are innocent. We are force fed it from our childhood. Consider, do we not think innocence before guilt? As you dig deeper you may find this I do not know, but all of what you posted in this thread are words I have used. Like the other young lady it is nothing new to me.
Mike555 actually makes some very good points. If you look what I humbly posted by a great Christian mind you will see it ties in with mine. I do not use armchair theology. I once did. I do not belittle it, but without moving beyond it we can not grow.
I beg you in Christ to rethink this. It may make your mind swirl. I confess it did mine, but I do not just witness to non believers. I witness to those who have been fed false doctrine as well. I dont care about denominations, Catholic or Protestant, I Love You all. I can not leave you as Jesus has never left me. This is Truth in Christ. He is God.
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