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There were several key points that brought me to understand that God will save all people:
1. God is sovereign over all, including my alleged "free-will". It probably took me a year to really accept this and give up the belief of free will. We just don't have a free will. We are clay. What we have is a limited will, that is bound by our desires and experiences.
2. aion/aionios is mistranslated as "eternal/forever". When I first read this, I admit it was hard to believe. How could such a mistranslation be true? But it did give a glimmer of hope. It took me several months to verify this as true for myself.
3. the mistranslation of the word "hell". Its pretty easy for anyone to show with about half an hour of study. The shenanigans of translating one word "hell" from 4 completely different words immediately set up a red flag that there was something wrong with my understanding of hell.
But I don't want to discuss these concepts much in this thread. This is just some background study you might want to do yourself. What I want to discuss is what really confirmed Universal salvation for me: the literally hundreds of scripture verses that all fit together in one way or another to show how God will achieve his plan of universal salvation. It will take me a bit of time and a few posts to show the bulk of scriptures I want to show. I would also like to cover scriptures that are quite often used to "prove" the existence of eternal hell, and explain how they do not really show that.
So before the onslaught of comments begin, give me a chance to get a couple posts up at least (if you please ). Let's begin:
1 Tim 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; 4Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
1 Tim 4:10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.
When I first read these verses after learning about the possibility of universal salvation, I was amazed. It was like I had never read them before. How could I have missed them before? God will have all men to be saved! God is the savior of all mankind! Now of course people don't really believe what it says. They say it is only a desire that won't be achieved. Or they say its not really "all men". Its only those who believe. But none of these explanations sit with me as they all change the wording of the text.
Some bibles do translate 1 Tim 2:4 as a "desire" instead of God's will, but that doesn't really seem to matter with God, as He declares that He will achieve His desires. Do you believe these scriptures?:
Isaiah 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure
Isaiah 55:11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.
Job 23:13 But he stands alone, and who can oppose him? He does whatever he pleases.
So God can achieve whatever He desires and no one can stop him. Seems logical, since He is God after all! Surely it will please God to achieve His desire and will to save all people, would it not? Is there a verse in the bible that says it is God's will and desire to torment people for eternity? I challenge you to find one. It doesn't exist.
What about man's choice; "free will" if you must call it that. People are all too quick to dismiss God's will and say man's free will must trump.
Isaiah 45:22"Turn to Me and be saved, all the ends of the earth;
For I am God, and there is no other.
23"I have sworn by Myself,
The word has gone forth from My mouth in righteousness
And will not turn back,
That to Me every knee will bow, every tongue will swear allegiance.
This should make it crystal clear that everyone will willingly submit to Christ. They all swear allegiance! God has declared it will happen. Do you believe God? This is from the NASB version; the word for "swear" means to "swear an oath of loyalty or allegiance". You can also compare with Romans 14:11 and Phil 2:9-11 which also confirm that everyone "confesses". The "confession" is actually a willing acknowledgement of praise and joyous celebration.
This is just the tip of the good news. And on that note:
Luke 2:10 But the angel said to them, "Do not be afraid; for behold, I bring you good news of great joy which will be for all the people;
Remember, the angels told the shepherds it is great joy and good news for all the people.
I will stop here for now. Before everyone replies back to me saying "all doesn't mean all", I will try to get another post out this afternoon with more scripture.
There were several key points that brought me to understand that God will save all people:
1. God is sovereign over all, including my alleged "free-will". It probably took me a year to really accept this and give up the belief of free will. We just don't have a free will. We are clay. What we have is a limited will, that is bound by our desires and experiences.
2. aion/aionios is mistranslated as "eternal/forever". When I first read this, I admit it was hard to believe. How could such a mistranslation be true? But it did give a glimmer of hope. It took me several months to verify this as true for myself.
3. the mistranslation of the word "hell". Its pretty easy for anyone to show with about half an hour of study. The shenanigans of translating one word "hell" from 4 completely different words immediately set up a red flag that there was something wrong with my understanding of hell.
But I don't want to discuss these concepts much in this thread. This is just some background study you might want to do yourself. What I want to discuss is what really confirmed Universal salvation for me: the literally hundreds of scripture verses that all fit together in one way or another to show how God will achieve his plan of universal salvation. It will take me a bit of time and a few posts to show the bulk of scriptures I want to show. I would also like to cover scriptures that are quite often used to "prove" the existence of eternal hell, and explain how they do not really show that.
So before the onslaught of comments begin, give me a chance to get a couple posts up at least (if you please ). Let's begin:
1 Tim 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; 4Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
1 Tim 4:10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.
When I first read these verses after learning about the possibility of universal salvation, I was amazed. It was like I had never read them before. How could I have missed them before? God will have all men to be saved! God is the savior of all mankind! Now of course people don't really believe what it says. They say it is only a desire that won't be achieved. Or they say its not really "all men". Its only those who believe. But none of these explanations sit with me as they all change the wording of the text.
Some bibles do translate 1 Tim 2:4 as a "desire" instead of God's will, but that doesn't really seem to matter with God, as He declares that He will achieve His desires. Do you believe these scriptures?:
Isaiah 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure
Isaiah 55:11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.
Job 23:13 But he stands alone, and who can oppose him? He does whatever he pleases.
So God can achieve whatever He desires and no one can stop him. Seems logical, since He is God after all! Surely it will please God to achieve His desire and will to save all people, would it not? Is there a verse in the bible that says it is God's will and desire to torment people for eternity? I challenge you to find one. It doesn't exist.
What about man's choice; "free will" if you must call it that. People are all too quick to dismiss God's will and say man's free will must trump.
Isaiah 45:22"Turn to Me and be saved, all the ends of the earth;
For I am God, and there is no other.
23"I have sworn by Myself,
The word has gone forth from My mouth in righteousness
And will not turn back,
That to Me every knee will bow, every tongue will swear allegiance.
This should make it crystal clear that everyone will willingly submit to Christ. They all swear allegiance! God has declared it will happen. Do you believe God? This is from the NASB version; the word for "swear" means to "swear an oath of loyalty or allegiance". You can also compare with Romans 14:11 and Phil 2:9-11 which also confirm that everyone "confesses". The "confession" is actually a willing acknowledgement of praise and joyous celebration.
This is just the tip of the good news. And on that note:
Luke 2:10 But the angel said to them, "Do not be afraid; for behold, I bring you good news of great joy which will be for all the people;
Remember, the angels told the shepherds it is great joy and good news for all the people.
I will stop here for now. Before everyone replies back to me saying "all doesn't mean all", I will try to get another post out this afternoon with more scripture.
If what you believe is true; what was the point of Christ on the cross?
to save all men from eternal death, doesn't that make sense?
if Jesus saves only a few, then nobody asks what was the point, but when Jesus saves all, people ask, what was the point? - I can't comprehend that
Jesus died on the cross and now we're all saved? So, the part about belief, repentance, confession, faith, holiness, righteousness, etc. means nothing?
There were several key points that brought me to understand that God will save all people:
1. God is sovereign over all, including my alleged "free-will". It probably took me a year to really accept this and give up the belief of free will. We just don't have a free will. We are clay. What we have is a limited will, that is bound by our desires and experiences.
2. aion/aionios is mistranslated as "eternal/forever". When I first read this, I admit it was hard to believe. How could such a mistranslation be true? But it did give a glimmer of hope. It took me several months to verify this as true for myself.
Aionios does mean eternal when used in that context. This is easily shown if anyone will simply do some HONEST research on it. Universalists rely on the principle that if you repeat a lie often enough, people begin to believe it.
Quote:
3. the mistranslation of the word "hell". Its pretty easy for anyone to show with about half an hour of study. The shenanigans of translating one word "hell" from 4 completely different words immediately set up a red flag that there was something wrong with my understanding of hell.
Calling it 'Hell' or Hades doesn't make any difference. By either name that we call it, it is described in Luke 16.
Quote:
But I don't want to discuss these concepts much in this thread. This is just some background study you might want to do yourself. What I want to discuss is what really confirmed Universal salvation for me: the literally hundreds of scripture verses that all fit together in one way or another to show how God will achieve his plan of universal salvation. It will take me a bit of time and a few posts to show the bulk of scriptures I want to show. I would also like to cover scriptures that are quite often used to "prove" the existence of eternal hell, and explain how they do not really show that.
So before the onslaught of comments begin, give me a chance to get a couple posts up at least (if you please ). Let's begin:
1 Tim 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; 4Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
1 Tim 4:10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.
Jesus Christ died for all men. Only those who believe in Him are saved.
Acts 16:31 Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved.
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, That whosoever believes in Him SHOULD NOT PERISH, but have eternal life.
Quote:
When I first read these verses after learning about the possibility of universal salvation, I was amazed. It was like I had never read them before. How could I have missed them before? God will have all men to be saved! God is the savior of all mankind! Now of course people don't really believe what it says. They say it is only a desire that won't be achieved. Or they say its not really "all men". Its only those who believe. But none of these explanations sit with me as they all change the wording of the text.
Some bibles do translate 1 Tim 2:4 as a "desire" instead of God's will, but that doesn't really seem to matter with God, as He declares that He will achieve His desires. Do you believe these scriptures?:
Isaiah 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure
Isaiah 55:11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.
Job 23:13 But he stands alone, and who can oppose him? He does whatever he pleases.
So God can achieve whatever He desires and no one can stop him. Seems logical, since He is God after all! Surely it will please God to achieve His desire and will to save all people, would it not? Is there a verse in the bible that says it is God's will and desire to torment people for eternity? I challenge you to find one. It doesn't exist.
God's will is to save those who believe the Gospel concerning the need to believe in Jesus Christ for salvation.
You purposely distort the requirement of God's holy nature to separate from Himself those who do not receive His offer of salvation through Christ into a desire on God's part to torment people and then challenge them to find such a verse.
Quote:
What about man's choice; "free will" if you must call it that. People are all too quick to dismiss God's will and say man's free will must trump.
Isaiah 45:22"Turn to Me and be saved, all the ends of the earth;
For I am God, and there is no other.
23"I have sworn by Myself,
The word has gone forth from My mouth in righteousness
And will not turn back,
That to Me every knee will bow, every tongue will swear allegiance.
This should make it crystal clear that everyone will willingly submit to Christ. They all swear allegiance! God has declared it will happen. Do you believe God? This is from the NASB version; the word for "swear" means to "swear an oath of loyalty or allegiance". You can also compare with Romans 14:11 and Phil 2:9-11 which also confirm that everyone "confesses". The "confession" is actually a willing acknowledgement of praise and joyous celebration.
This is just the tip of the good news. And on that note:
Luke 2:10 But the angel said to them, "Do not be afraid; for behold, I bring you good news of great joy which will be for all the people;
Remember, the angels told the shepherds it is great joy and good news for all the people.
I will stop here for now. Before everyone replies back to me saying "all doesn't mean all", I will try to get another post out this afternoon with more scripture.
As anyone with sense can see, these universalists all ignore the many scripture passages that tell you that you MUST believe in Christ in order to be saved. They proclaim that they have some great revelation from scriptures that they in fact don't even understand.
People who fall for this Satanic lie of universal salvation will reap what they sow.
Aionios does mean eternal when used in that context. This is easily shown if anyone will simply do some HONEST research on it. Universalists rely on the principle that if you repeat a lie often enough, people begin to believe it.
Calling it 'Hell' or Hades doesn't make any difference. By either name that we call it, it is described in Luke 16.
Jesus Christ died for all men. Only those who believe in Him are saved.
Acts 16:31 Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved.
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, That whosoever believes in Him SHOULD NOT PERISH, but have eternal life.
God's will is to save those who believe the Gospel concerning the need to believe in Jesus Christ for salvation.
You purposely distort the requirement of God's holy nature to separate from Himself those who do not receive His offer of salvation through Christ into a desire on God's part to torment people and then challenge them to find such a verse.
As anyone with sense can see, these universalists all ignore the many scripture passages that tell you that you MUST believe in Christ in order to be saved. They proclaim that they have some great revelation from scriptures that they in fact don't even understand.
People who fall for this Satanic lie of universal salvation will reap what they sow.
If what you believe is true; what was the point of Christ on the cross?
So you don't believe the scriptures I posted?!? "If what you believe is true..." I posted scriptures. I guess you don't believe them. I will be posting more scriptures, hopefully soon.
Question do all these verses you posted lead to follow the Great Commission? if it doesn't then you are not on the right path.
Are you saying those verses are not the right path or are untrue? I don't understand your comment.
Let me summarize it for you. Do you believe each of the following is true?:
1. God will have all men to be saved (1 Tim 2:4)
2. God is the savior of all men (1 Tim 4:10)
3. God will accomplish His desires (Isa 46:10, Isa 55:11, Job 23:13)
4. Every knee will bow, every tongue will swear allegiance to God (Isa 45:23, Phil 2:9-11, Rom 14:11)
5. The good news will bring great joy to all people (Luke 2:10)
Do you believe those? If not, then we have a basic problem, because you don't believe the bible.
Jesus died on the cross and now we're all saved? So, the part about belief, repentance, confession, faith, holiness, righteousness, etc. means nothing?
Well, I'm sure Sven could answer you, but if you had read my OP fully, you would see I'm planning on covering many hundreds of verses in this thread. No where have I said that belief, repentance, confession, faith, etc mean nothing. That is your belief, not mine (nor Sven's I believe). Don't jump the gun, I will get to them.
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). Let's begin:
I posted scriptures. I guess you don't believe them. I will be posting more scriptures, hopefully soon.