Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
24,544 posts, read 56,068,476 times
Reputation: 11862
Advertisements
I'm a Christian but I have to admit I'm not always very faithful. Anyway, for awhile now I have been suffering from anxiety, partly caused by obsessive religion thoughts. They main centered on God's character; I would obsess about his justice, the fact he would send people to hell, ideas like pre-destination, the evil in the world, the fact when Christ returns he will judge the world violently, as in Revelation. Sometimes I would get so fearful I would forget the loving part of his nature and he would appear almost like an ogre in my mind. I always tried to dam up these thoughts before they would drive me insane.
Anyway, a couple of nights ago I was in a depressive mood when I thought about God I could only see him as being angry, and wrathful; i.e. that part of his personality. I felt he was merciless and hard to talk to. I know I shouldn't have been dwelling so much on it, but I continued to. Anyway, it got to the point where I thought that maybe God wasn't essentially good. Now I know he is, and believe that fully, but at the time, the Devil used fear to trick or try to convince me into believing otherwise. It's hard to explain; a part of me knew I was being deceived, yet a part of me - the fearful part - had the FEELING I was convinced it was true. This led to me thinking about the verses in the Bible where Jesus talks about the sin that will not be forgiven, and then I thought about the Holy Spirit. If God might not be good, and even evil, what if the Holy Spirit was? At the time I seemed to be convinced the Holy Spirit was somehow sinister; not that he was the Devil or anything, but that he wasn't all good and all Holy. I knew, deep down, these thoughts were false, and it seemed like someone else was putting them in there. For what seemed like 10 whole minutes I thought I believed this dreadful lie. I prayed to the Lord to deliver me, and after those 10 minutes I seemed to recover and the thought seemed so absurd and unbelievable. Yet there still remained a seed of doubt: 'what if?'
I was mortified that I had somehow thought something so offensive, so false and abominable about the Holy Spirit, that I had commited blasphemy in thought. I worried and worried, until the fear returned the next day, and the same thing happened. If I worried I did it and was damned forever the Devil would put the idea into my head that 'God is Evil'; it seemed so because he would cause me so much pain. Yet still I realised his holiness and his omnipotence; yet because of the fear he caused, the fearing part of my mind associated him with a sort of dreadfulness; I almost felt like one opposing God, even though I have never, ever wanted to or even felt tempted to, always understood who he was and his essential goodness. It was like I was experiencing the fear of his wrath. That flash when I felt God seemed evil made me think I had commited the sin. I feared that the Holy Spirit might have left me because I had become His enemy!
This, too, seemed to last about 10-15 minutes. Then the thoughts largely left me; but would still nag me from time to time. The attacks seemed to come out of the blue, and cause me to panic.
Even though I had no control over the thoughts, I sincerely repent of them and having the negative thoughts that preceded them. I prayed and tried to calm myself by reading the Bible, and don't THINK I have, but I still worry about WHAT IF? I can honestly say I had no control over my thoughts; it was like, when I was having them I couldn't believe I was having them. I sincerely believe Satan was using them to doubt my own attitude towards God; what I worry is, that even if I did it out of ignorance or fear (like the Pharisees) it would still be unacceptable and unforgivable. I think it would grossly unfair because I really didn't do it willfully at all, and all I want is to feel the same love and the dwelling of the Spirit. Yet I feel I have so shamed him that he would not dwell in me anymore, and I can't have the same love anymore.
I apologize if this was a bit long. I can't concentrate or think of anything else, it is tormenting me. I read up alot on the websites, and sometimes fear my case is different because I seemed to be convinced of my thoughts. Once again, they did not seem my own; in my heart I fought against them, resisted them, but evil powers seemed to overwhelm me at that point. I still held on and held out through the power and grace of God, yet I am still paranoid that that single THOUGHT was unforgivable. I feared it reflected some deep seated belief in my heart. I have read many interpretations of what the sin is, but I am paranoid that thinking something blasphemous about the Holy Spirit, even if you didn't mean it, is unforgivable. Please put my mind to rest!
The very fact that you are concerned shows that your conscience in intact and all is well. You seem to be suffering from a touch of O.C.D. though which exacerbates the problem. You may want to consult a mental health professional about that, it's a fairly common ailment and I have a couple of friends who suffer from it. Briefly, as a child I myself suffered with it as well.
God has not given us a spirit of fear but of love, power and a sound mind.
Let God's perfect love cast out all your fear.
There are many threads here about God's universal love and what that means.
Trimac......my youngest son suffers from Obsessive Compulsive Disorder – he is currently 17 but diagnosed in Grade 6. He is a very loving spiritual young adult who follows Jesus’ word and is probably follows the commandments better than any other in our family J
He was diagnosed with Obsessive Compulsive Disorder and as you are probably very aware, and forgive me if I am stating what you already know, but OCD rears its ugly head in different forms, i.e. checkers, hoarders, orderers, obsessors, etc. My son has obsessive thoughts and was diagnosed with “bad thought” OCD. I witnessed how extremely difficult this is as it struck my son quite suddenly
His bad thoughts were making him feel physically ill and I could see that his thoughts worried him sick.
The doctor told him that an obsessive thought is not his fault and not who he is as a person and no matter how hard he tried to stop it - it was like someone pushed the doorbell and the ding dong got stuck , and stuck, and it just continued to ring and ring and ring and ring and ring
As my son had “bad thought” OCD and these thoughts were very dark and it literally freaked me right out and I did not know what had become of him as he had not been diagnosed when this suddenly came over him. He was diagnosed shortly after and the doctor told him that people that have bad obsessive thoughts NEVER ACT out on them (at least she had never ever heard of it but I don’t want to say never or I may get to trouble here on this fourm J. These thoughts are truly invasive and not of the nature of the person, which person most of the time are some of the most sincere people on this earth. My son lives so close to God’s Word that he would never lie or cheat and I do not mean to boast but it is true. So you see, these thoughts were not his thoughts but an obsession that got stuck in his mind and no matter how hard he tried they would not go away.
He met with our Reverend who assisted his mental health counselor and he participated in a very successful therapy called “Exposure & Response Treatment”. NO MORE do these intrusive bad thoughts take over his mind. He always states that he is much bigger than his OCD and he does not let bad thoughts rule his mind anymore. He still has obsessive and ritualistic tendencies, like he tells me he loves me 15 times instead of just once prior to going to bed every night and he always has to jump up and hit the top of a door frame when walking through the door J but these are minor little compulsions that he has and in no way affect his life anymore.
Please continue to pray to God for his Love and guidance. Pray earnestly and ask that his Love fill you up J and if you not done so, seek professional guidance in your pastor and a mental health provider in exposure and response therapy. These voices are not you J
God knows what is in your heart……and he knows you are being tormented by thoughts that are not of your own.
I will have you in my prayers J
Last edited by SisterKat; 02-03-2010 at 12:13 AM..
John - From what you described - I don't think you blasphemed the Spirit.
Let me give you something to think about.
Christians will be raptured up and not be subject to the events in Revelation. This is a debated subject as to if and when a rapture takes place. The rapture is described here.
1 Thess. 4:13-18 - 13 But we do not want you to be uninformed, brethren, about those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve as do the rest who have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus. 15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.
I take these events to occur before the judgment on the earth in Revelation. Why? Because is consistent with God's track record.
God allowed Noah to escape the judgment of the flood.
God allowed Lot to escape the judgment of Sodom and Gomorrah.
Check out this dialogue w/ Abraham before Sodom and Gomorrah...
Gen. 18:23-26 - 23 Abraham came near and said, "Will You indeed sweep away the righteous with the wicked? 24 "Suppose there are fifty righteous within the city; will You indeed sweep it away and not spare the place for the sake of the fifty righteous who are in it? 25 "Far be it from You to do such a thing, to slay the righteous with the wicked, so that the righteous and the wicked are treated alike. Far be it from You! Shall not the Judge of all the earth deal justly?" 26 So the LORD said, "If I find in Sodom fifty righteous within the city, then I will spare the whole place on their account."
And...
Gen. 18:32 - Then he said, "Oh may the Lord not be angry, and I shall speak only this once; suppose ten are found there?" And He said, "I will not destroy it on account of the ten."
In this case, God found only Lot and his family as righteous, so He removed them before destroying the city. So when it comes to judgment, God will remove the righteous and those who are His. Christians, since they are one with Christ, do not have to concern ourselves with the events described in Revelation. Hopefully this will help you think things through.
John - If you don't mind me asking - you said you are a Christian - on what basis do you make that claim?
One other thing: Exposure and Response Therapy is a VERY successful treatment but not easy as you have to experience the thought and when it comes to this very topic is not easy.
If you do in fact have OCD and move forward with treatment it is always nice to consult with your pastor who can assist you and your mental health worker
Although I am not qualified to give you any medical advice or make a layman's diagnosis I can offer some spiritual advice and my credentials go way back through many years of prayer and practice..
Think about Gods grace, that He loves you unconditionally and that He is a loving, forgiving Father..He knows you better than you know yourself..
I believe the only way one can blaspheme against the Holy Spirit is to continuously deny, reject and avoid Him..Since you feel guilt and are asking for advice I believe the Holy spirit is doing one of His jobs in helping you overcome this..
Trimac, it is the devil tormenting you, trying to convince you that you somehow have "blasphemed against the Holy Ghost", in your thought life, that therefore "now you are lost for sure, and you might just as well give up right now, etc, etc". Well, guess what: the Bible says the devil is a liar, and the Father of lies! Don't buy that lie that you've blasphemed the Holy Spirit! From reading your post, I am absolutely sure you have not committed the unforgiveable sin. Having doubtful thoughts is not the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost.
Read this Bible passage from the book of Matthew:
22 Then one was brought to Him who was demon-possessed, blind and mute; and He healed him, so that the blind and[e] mute man both spoke and saw. 23 And all the multitudes were amazed and said, “Could this be the Son of David?”
24 Now when the Pharisees heard it they said, “This fellow does not cast out demons except by Beelzebub,[f] the ruler of the demons.”
25 But Jesus knew their thoughts, and said to them: “Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation, and every city or house divided against itself will not stand. 26 If Satan casts out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then will his kingdom stand? 27 And if I cast out demons by Beelzebub, by whom do your sons cast them out? Therefore they shall be your judges. 28 But if I cast out demons by the Spirit of God, surely the kingdom of God has come upon you. 29 Or how can one enter a strong man’s house and plunder his goods, unless he first binds the strong man? And then he will plunder his house. 30 He who is not with Me is against Me, and he who does not gather with Me scatters abroad.
31 “Therefore I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven men. 32 Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come.
So...from reading the above scripture, we may learn what exactly is the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. Jesus had just healed and delivered a man, by the power of the Holy Spirit, right in front of everybody...the people all saw him do it. But the Pharisees, when they heard of it, then said to the public: "no, Jesus does all that by the power of Satan, it's not the Holy Spirit!". They attributed the wonderful power and works of the Holy Spirit as being "of the devil", and declared so publicly, outloud, where everyone heard their accusation. THAT is the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. It is accusing the works of the Holy Spirit as being "of the devil, not of God, demonic, etc". It is akin to telling the Holy Spirit that He is the devil...doing the works of the devil...
Notice the word "therefore" in verse 31? That word "therefore" ties together the events of verses 22-30 with His warning in verses 31-32. That's how we know what the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is...
You didn't do that, so I'm thinking what you've got is the good old Godly fear of the Lord. That's good...we ought to fear Him...in a reverant, respectful sort of way. If you did something wrong, just tell Him you are sorry, to forgive you, that you won't do it again, and then continue on with your Christian walk. Tell Satan you're not buying his lie, and to "get lost", stop bothering you. And don't worry...you didn't commit the unforgiveable sin!
I apologize if this was a bit long. I can't concentrate or think of anything else, it is tormenting me. I read up alot on the websites, and sometimes fear my case is different because I seemed to be convinced of my thoughts. Once again, they did not seem my own; in my heart I fought against them, resisted them, but evil powers seemed to overwhelm me at that point. I still held on and held out through the power and grace of God, yet I am still paranoid that that single THOUGHT was unforgivable. I feared it reflected some deep seated belief in my heart. I have read many interpretations of what the sin is, but I am paranoid that thinking something blasphemous about the Holy Spirit, even if you didn't mean it, is unforgivable. Please put my mind to rest!
Thankyou and God Bless,
John
Not once did you commit the unpardonable sin, and the thoughts that attacked you were not your own, but were arrows of the enemy, trying to ensnare you in doubt of your own salvation in Christ Jesus. The unpardonable sin is rejection of the Light/Christ, which is revealed to one internally, by the Holy Spirit, as being Christ, come in flesh.
If you haven't had the revelation, then you cannot blaspheme willfully and be damned. Even Paul said he blasphemed, but in ignorance -before the revelation of Him, which he was given on the road to Damascus.
The enemy of your soul is trying to take your peace, and the whole armor of God is yours, for the taking, by the Word's promises to you.
Its funny, isn't it, how the devil works: sometimes God's people get mad at Him because of His goodness in pardoning all who repent, because they don't want God to pardon all who repent, by their own bias'! -take the case of Jonah, for instance, how he knew that his message of God's judgment would be received by the Ninevites and that the Ninevites would repent and God would not judge them! Jonah was so convinced of God's mercy to the repentant and so convinced that the Ninevites would receive the warning of judgment and repent, that he fled, and refused to go preach the message of judgment and overthrow. You know the story, but isn't it funny that God's prophet was so convinced of God's mercy toward the repentant that he just did not want to go warn them of judgment, so that they would not repent!
Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
24,544 posts, read 56,068,476 times
Reputation: 11862
Thankyou all so much for your understanding and well-thought out responses!
I see it as a sort of test from God, like with Job he sometimes uses the enemy to test us. I think I've come out of the experience stronger in my faith; before this my faith was always waivering, and although I hope it will not continue to waiver, there are still things which trouble me; the character of God, my own deficiencies, and issues with the infallability of scripture. This has helped me come to terms with the first, but I admit there are things like eternal torment and the idea of the 'elect' I haven't come to terms with.
I see what you mean, Bud. Although we can't be sure, blasphemy may relate to people who directly witness the Holy Spirit and still attribute anything done by the Spirit to the Devil. You see, I have a rather paranoid way of thinking sometimes. I think, just because you do something - even think something - really terrible, I think God simiply can't forgive it because it's so terrible. It's the same with sin in general. I sometimes find it hard God will forgive some of my sins, my lukewarmness, my doubts. I KNOW Christ has cleansed it all by his death, but as well all know sometimes what we know and what we feel we believe at the time doesn't match up! So I think, I can slip up enough so that God won't forgive me. I should focus more on trusting and relying on him. To be honest, my faith has never been very strong, and I actually QUITE FREQUENTLY have negative thoughts about God. Sometimes I also am not 100% sure he's hearing my prayers, or even 100% sure he exists (I've never doubted it, though, just fell into questioning at times).
When I read Isaiah, I come away with a sense of God's justice and his wrath towards sinners, but not so much of his overridiing love and mercy. Childishly I think or feel he is being mean, and this increases my negative fear towards him. He becomes like a strict school teacher who will punish any offense. And then verses like 'it is an awful thing to fall into the hands of the living God' and 'his wrath abides in him' chill me to the bone. Yes he is a God of love, but how terrible his wrath must be! I think of the part in Revelation where those being tormented curse God, and it makes me slightly nauseous. I can't imagine Jesus - the Lamb who died for our sins - would watch people burning in the lake of fire for eternity, but if you take Revelation literally - or as some interpret it - you must accept this to be true.
Like many with OCD, I have a tendency to think of the worst possible things and situations. I think 'there's a possibility I could commit the worst sin and fall into the worst fate imaginable' so these thoughts play and play on me. The Accuser accuses me, plants fears and doubts in my mind. I am guilty of not really taking the idea of the Devil seriously, but whoever or whatever he is I think there is definitely an Evil power opposing God.
Anyway, my OCD might trouble me in the future, but I will try to trust in God more to repel it.
Thanks all again, God Bless
John
ed: While I haven't been formally diagnosed with OCD, my psychiatrist (I've only seen him once) suspects I have a mild form of it. I've been suffering with general anxiety sinice I was aged 13.
I'm a Christian but I have to admit I'm not always very faithful. Anyway, for awhile now I have been suffering from anxiety, partly caused by obsessive religion thoughts. They main centered on God's character; I would obsess about his justice, the fact he would send people to hell, ideas like pre-destination, the evil in the world, the fact when Christ returns he will judge the world violently, as in Revelation. Sometimes I would get so fearful I would forget the loving part of his nature and he would appear almost like an ogre in my mind. I always tried to dam up these thoughts before they would drive me insane.
Anyway, a couple of nights ago I was in a depressive mood when I thought about God I could only see him as being angry, and wrathful; i.e. that part of his personality. I felt he was merciless and hard to talk to. I know I shouldn't have been dwelling so much on it, but I continued to. Anyway, it got to the point where I thought that maybe God wasn't essentially good. Now I know he is, and believe that fully, but at the time, the Devil used fear to trick or try to convince me into believing otherwise. It's hard to explain; a part of me knew I was being deceived, yet a part of me - the fearful part - had the FEELING I was convinced it was true. This led to me thinking about the verses in the Bible where Jesus talks about the sin that will not be forgiven, and then I thought about the Holy Spirit. If God might not be good, and even evil, what if the Holy Spirit was? At the time I seemed to be convinced the Holy Spirit was somehow sinister; not that he was the Devil or anything, but that he wasn't all good and all Holy. I knew, deep down, these thoughts were false, and it seemed like someone else was putting them in there. For what seemed like 10 whole minutes I thought I believed this dreadful lie. I prayed to the Lord to deliver me, and after those 10 minutes I seemed to recover and the thought seemed so absurd and unbelievable. Yet there still remained a seed of doubt: 'what if?'
I was mortified that I had somehow thought something so offensive, so false and abominable about the Holy Spirit, that I had commited blasphemy in thought. I worried and worried, until the fear returned the next day, and the same thing happened. If I worried I did it and was damned forever the Devil would put the idea into my head that 'God is Evil'; it seemed so because he would cause me so much pain. Yet still I realised his holiness and his omnipotence; yet because of the fear he caused, the fearing part of my mind associated him with a sort of dreadfulness; I almost felt like one opposing God, even though I have never, ever wanted to or even felt tempted to, always understood who he was and his essential goodness. It was like I was experiencing the fear of his wrath. That flash when I felt God seemed evil made me think I had commited the sin. I feared that the Holy Spirit might have left me because I had become His enemy!
This, too, seemed to last about 10-15 minutes. Then the thoughts largely left me; but would still nag me from time to time. The attacks seemed to come out of the blue, and cause me to panic.
Even though I had no control over the thoughts, I sincerely repent of them and having the negative thoughts that preceded them. I prayed and tried to calm myself by reading the Bible, and don't THINK I have, but I still worry about WHAT IF? I can honestly say I had no control over my thoughts; it was like, when I was having them I couldn't believe I was having them. I sincerely believe Satan was using them to doubt my own attitude towards God; what I worry is, that even if I did it out of ignorance or fear (like the Pharisees) it would still be unacceptable and unforgivable. I think it would grossly unfair because I really didn't do it willfully at all, and all I want is to feel the same love and the dwelling of the Spirit. Yet I feel I have so shamed him that he would not dwell in me anymore, and I can't have the same love anymore.
I apologize if this was a bit long. I can't concentrate or think of anything else, it is tormenting me. I read up alot on the websites, and sometimes fear my case is different because I seemed to be convinced of my thoughts. Once again, they did not seem my own; in my heart I fought against them, resisted them, but evil powers seemed to overwhelm me at that point. I still held on and held out through the power and grace of God, yet I am still paranoid that that single THOUGHT was unforgivable. I feared it reflected some deep seated belief in my heart. I have read many interpretations of what the sin is, but I am paranoid that thinking something blasphemous about the Holy Spirit, even if you didn't mean it, is unforgivable. Please put my mind to rest!
Thankyou and God Bless,
John
Be at rest... God will save EVERYONE. I can understand someone finding it difficult to rationally think of a God that can be just and at the same time torment what He knowingly brought to life beforehand and knowingly knew the outcome beforehand. Good thing is that God doesn't torment us forever as the mainstream preaches. God loves His enemies. He has the power to remove the most stubborn and defiant spirit from all of us by giving us a new heart.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
