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How inconceivable is it.. you believe this inconceivably vile doctrine. Obviously you didn't make it up right? you just choose to believe it.. who is worse the one who started it or you who upholds it? Either way it is a vile concept and a hideous doctrine...
And what about mankind in its use of prisons and the death penalty?
What about your right to defend yourself when an intruder comes into the home?
Shall God call the devil good while the devil continues to devours all those that crosses his path?
God is more than the God of love: He is the God of justice and holiness. He is the God of vengeance and the God of wrath.
If you have enough "sense" to declare justice against those that do evil, then don't make God as one without sense to just be the God of love.
Isaiah 66:22For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain. 23And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD. 24And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.
It is a vile and hideous concept for you to hand over your children to a child molester and rapist and killer: so don't expect God to do it either.
Hell exist for a reason as prisons and the death penalty do in serving mankind.
And what about mankind in its use of prisons and the death penalty?
What about your right to defend yourself when an intruder comes into the home?
Shall God call the devil good while the devil continues to devours all those that crosses his path?
God is more than the God of love: He is the God of justice and holiness. He is the God of vengeance and the God of wrath.
If you have enough "sense" to declare justice against those that do evil, then don't make God as one without sense to just be the God of love.
Isaiah 66:22For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain. 23And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD. 24And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.
It is a vile and hideous concept for you to hand over your children to a child molester and rapist and killer: so don't expect God to do it either.
Hell exist for a reason as prisons and the death penalty do in serving mankind.
Just a side note on Isaiah 66... it seems to me (since all people transgressed against God) that those who are looking at the carcasses are the same people who ARE the carcasses... notice that this is talking about a new heavens and new earth... therefore the New creature (of the new heavens and new earth) are looking back at the Old creature... similar to when you look back at before you were a christian at your old ways and abhor the things you did and said.
God doesn't need a death penalty for mankind anymore than a "heaven" with rewards... saving people glorifies God... not torturing them....
Hell does not exist in reality... the words translated as hell exist but the fiery burning forever place of torment doesn't... does that make sense?
Just a side note on Isaiah 66... it seems to me (since all people transgressed against God) that those who are looking at the carcasses are the same people who ARE the carcasses... notice that this is talking about a new heavens and new earth... therefore the New creature (of the new heavens and new earth) are looking back at the Old creature... similar to when you look back at before you were a christian at your old ways and abhor the things you did and said.
this is an interesting thought, you mean the spirits look on their former bodies?
but honestly, I adhere to a literal understanding here, undying worms and perpetual fire that devour corpses after an earthly judgment, this has nothing to do with some fabled netherworld.
This post has been up for almost a week and people who believe in a literal hell are posting on other threads all throughout the day beating up on people who don't believe in a literal hell but they are avoiding this thread like a plaque.
Just a side note on Isaiah 66... it seems to me (since all people transgressed against God) that those who are looking at the carcasses are the same people who ARE the carcasses... notice that this is talking about a new heavens and new earth... therefore the New creature (of the new heavens and new earth) are looking back at the Old creature... similar to when you look back at before you were a christian at your old ways and abhor the things you did and said.
Your application cannot be true.
Hebrews 8: 12For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
Hebrews 10: 17And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
Psalm 103: 11For as the heaven is high above the earth, so great is his mercy toward them that fear him. 12As far as the east is from the west, so far hath he removed our transgressions from us. 13Like as a father pitieth his children, so the LORD pitieth them that fear him.
Only the believers that feared Him and called upon His name to be saved had their sins and iniquities removed. Those that did not fear Him nor called on Him to be saved still borne their punishment.
You cannot be looking upon your past if they have been removed.
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God doesn't need a death penalty for mankind anymore than a "heaven" with rewards... saving people glorifies God... not torturing them....
Hell does not exist in reality... the words translated as hell exist but the fiery burning forever place of torment doesn't... does that make sense?
Jesus referred to hell in the parable of the rich man and the beggar, Lazarus.
The Bible testifies of Jesus defeating death and that hades and death will be cast into the lake of fire along with Satan and his angels at the end of a season after time of the milleniel reign when all those not found in the Book of Life will be cast into the lake of fire which is the second death.
The chastening of the Father as He scourges every child He receives doesn't happen if the sinner had never received the spirit of adoption by which he or she can call God Father... as it is written that there will be "bastards" indeed.
It has been said that those being tortured in hell will be glorifying God even in the lake of fire. So God's word holds true as all will bend the knee, but those condemned will be still doing it from the lake of fire as all will acknowledge God and glorify Him by confessing that Jesus Christ is Lord.
Philippians 2: 9Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: 10That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;11And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
You cannot say that all will be bending the knee in Heaven because how then could there be anyone bending the knee under the earth?
And ignoring the second death which is the lake of fire in Revelation is not wise since it is inferring the final judgment by which Jesus Christ will abolish death by casting it in the lake of fire: meaning no one will die ever again as sin has been dealt with forever. And that is not all that was cast in to the lake of fire: Satan and his angels, hades, and those whose names are not written in the Book of Life.
Seems redeeming the time would be better well spent by preaching the Gospel of grace found only by believing in Jesus Christ to the lost and not preaching UR to believers.
This post has been up for almost a week and people who believe in a literal hell are posting on other threads all throughout the day beating up on people who don't believe in a literal hell but they are avoiding this thread like a plaque.
Only because it is on God to cause the increase. You guys are not listening nor are you redeeming the time by preaching UR to believers.
You really think Paul would endorse preaching UR to believers or the Gospel of grace to the lost? You decide.
As it is, UR is ignoring the whole of scriptures and yet the gospel is to be given to the lost by the believers:
One cannot be saved from something that does not exist such as UR's claims of eternal torment. If there was no eternal torment, what is the need for salvation then?
If sin seperated us from God and hell and the lake of fire is where nothing good dwells which would be the full end of the wages of sin after death, then it stands to the glory of God that to be saved, one should be saved before death comes...otherwise... mankind loving their evil deeds over coming to God Whom is good, will go where nothing good dwells for sin cannot dwell with God.
And since Jesus is victorious over death: now is the time to call on God to be saved from their bondage to sin and to death: not after death.
If one resists Him now because they love their evil deeds more than Him, then there is nothing to say they will love Him more than their evil deeds when they are in hell and in the lake of fire. We see Satan in the pit for 1000 years and yet what? The devil still rebels.
If mankind has prisons and the death penalty, then mankind is a hypocrit if they cannot see why God has the same to deal with those for all eternity that prefer their evil deeds than to come to Jesus to be reproved of them.
Why do people like L Ray Smith waste their time on trying to put down such a nonsensical doctrine as is the 'doctrine of hell'? Do they make money off of these YouTube videos, or is it just their way of getting attention for themselves?
this is an interesting thought, you mean the spirits look on their former bodies?
but honestly, I adhere to a literal understanding here, undying worms and perpetual fire that devour corpses after an earthly judgment, this has nothing to do with some fabled netherworld.
Worms that do not die have no literal rendering....
Also perpetual fire and devouring are conflicting as fire devours fuel so at some point in time the fuel is gone. IMO
And as far as we know from OT history.. there was a place for burning criminals on earth.. the Valley of Hinnom, but now it is a very pretty park.
I don't believe it is a "fabled netherworld"... I was saying that they looked "back" on their lives as an OLD creature in comparison to their lives as a NEW creature...
Nothing to do with any supposed netherworld.. FYI-I don't believe in heaven nor hell..
Worms that do not die have no literal rendering....
Actually it does, it has an eternal rendereing. When a person dies and goes in a grave the worm eats the body and when the body is gone, nothing left to eat then the worm dies. In this case the worm that consumed the flesh will never die and go and on because the new bodies cast in hell will never die and go on and on. The worm will always have flesh to feed on forever.
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Also perpetual fire and devouring are conflicting as fire devours fuel so at some point in time the fuel is gone. IMO
There is no real fire like we see on the earth but the fire is within the body and outside of it because God won't be there to give His goodness as He does here on earth, you will still be hungry and He won't be there to give food, You want to see through the outter darkness but He won't be there to supply the light not to mention the torment one goes through of remembering how many times they rejected the gospel and blasphemed God and no hope of forgiveness because of Christ to ease the burden or quench the fire so to speak.
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