News, Anti-Catholic Leaflet Stirs Holy War in Tennessee Town. (pray, Jesus Christ, Bible)
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Lord forgive me but Mystic has hit the nail on the head.
Lets look at John 6:31-64
31 Our fathers ate the manna in the wilderness; as it is written, 'He gave them bread from heaven to eat.'"
32 Jesus then said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, it was not Moses who gave you the bread from heaven; my Father gives you the true bread from heaven.
33 For the bread of God is that which comes down from heaven, and gives life to the world."
34 They said to him, "Lord, give us this bread always."
35 Jesus said to them, "I am the bread of life; he who comes to me shall not hunger, and he who believes in me shall never thirst.
36 But I said to you that you have seen me and yet do not believe.
37 All that the Father gives me will come to me; and him who comes to me I will not cast out.
38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will, but the will of him who sent me;
39 and this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up at the last day.
40 For this is the will of my Father, that every one who sees the Son and believes in him should have eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day."
41 The Jews then murmured at him, because he said, "I am the bread which came down from heaven."
42 They said, "Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How does he now say, 'I have come down from heaven'?"
43 Jesus answered them, "Do not murmur among yourselves.
44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.
45 It is written in the prophets, 'And they shall all be taught by God.' Every one who has heard and learned from the Father comes to me.
46 Not that any one has seen the Father except him who is from God; he has seen the Father.
47 Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life.
48 I am the bread of life. 49 Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and they died.
50 This is the bread which comes down from heaven, that a man may eat of it and not die. 51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven; if any one eats of this bread, he will live for ever; and the bread which I shall give for the life of the world is my flesh."
52 The Jews then disputed among themselves, saying, "How can this man give us his flesh to eat?"
53 So Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you;
54 he who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.
55 For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.
56 He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him.
57 As the living Father sent me, and I live because of the Father, so he who eats me will live because of me. 58 This is the bread which came down from heaven, not such as the fathers ate and died; he who eats this bread will live for ever."
59 This he said in the synagogue, as he taught at Caper'na-um. 60 Many of his disciples, when they heard it, said, "This is a hard saying; who can listen to it?"
61 But Jesus, knowing in himself that his disciples murmured at it, said to them, "Do you take offense at this? 62 Then what if you were to see the Son of man ascending where he was before?
63 It is the spirit that gives life, the flesh is of no avail; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life. 64 But there are some of you that do not believe." For Jesus knew from the first who those were that did not believe, and who it was that would betray him.
Jesus not only said to eat His flesh and drink His blood once, but twice. His audience was shocked (verses 52,60,61) after He said it the first time. ("Cannibilism, are you crazy?") Jesus could of said, well, it's not actually my flesh and blood. I was just using metaphors. But He didn't. He repeated it again (Verses 53-57). Jesus made it perfectly clear what His audience needed to do.
If you believe that the early Christians got it right, well, the Early Church Fathers unequivocally agreed that the bread and wine were indeed the actual flesh and blood of Jesus Christ. And just because Jesus said do this in remembrance of me, does NOT exclude the possibility that the bread and wine becomes Jesus's flesh and blood. That was Jesus teaching disciples to continue to eat Jesus via bread and wine and thus the Catholic Church's Sacrament of the Eucharist was born.
Is transubstantiation hard to believe? No harder than believing in God.
Jesus not only said to eat His flesh and drink His blood once, but twice. His audience was shocked (verses 52,60,61) after He said it the first time.
After the first time, they lied. They pretended that Jesus meant cannibalism (as well as breaking Mosaic Law), when they knew that what he really meant was they they had to behave as he did, which put them in danger of the Sanhedrin as well as Herodians. They left because the cost of discipleship was too much.
Quote:
("Cannibilism, are you crazy?") Jesus could of said, well, it's not actually my flesh and blood. I was just using metaphors. But He didn't. He repeated it again (Verses 53-57). Jesus made it perfectly clear what His audience needed to do.
So the twelve who remained were all prepared to eat Jesus, there and then, it seems.
60 Many of his disciples, when they heard it, said, "This is a hard saying; who can listen to it?"
61 But Jesus, knowing in himself that his disciples murmured at it, said to them, "Do you take offense at this? 62 Then what if you were to see the Son of man ascending where he was before?
63 It is the spirit that gives life, the flesh is of no avail; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life.
What about this part? - doesn't seem as if Christ did mean it literally
Jesus could of said, well, it's not actually my flesh and blood. I was just using metaphors. But He didn't. He repeated it again (Verses 53-57). Jesus made it perfectly clear what His audience needed to do.
Jesus not only said to eat His flesh and drink His blood once, but twice. His audience was shocked (verses 52,60,61) after He said it the first time. ("Cannibilism, are you crazy?") Jesus could of said, well, it's not actually my flesh and blood. I was just using metaphors. But He didn't. He repeated it again (Verses 53-57). Jesus made it perfectly clear what His audience needed to do.
After the first time, they lied. They pretended that Jesus meant cannibalism (as well as breaking Mosaic Law), when they knew that what he really meant was they they had to behave as he did, which put them in danger of the Sanhedrin as well as Herodians. They left because the cost of discipleship was too much.
So the twelve who remained were all prepared to eat Jesus, there and then, it seems.
They didn't understand, but they trusted Jesus. Because he alone had the words of eternal life.
60 Many of his disciples, when they heard it, said, "This is a hard saying; who can listen to it?"
61 But Jesus, knowing in himself that his disciples murmured at it, said to them, "Do you take offense at this? 62 Then what if you were to see the Son of man ascending where he was before?
63 It is the spirit that gives life, the flesh is of no avail; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life.
What about this part? - doesn't seem as if Christ did mean it literally
How does that make him not mean it literally. He's saying that the flesh doesn't gain the, the spirit does. He is also saying that you need to pay attention cause what he's saying is important.
In verse 51, he equates as his flesh in this speech, as the same flesh that he will give for the life of the world. He's talking about his sacrifice on the cross there. What else could he be talking about. He literally gave his flesh, on the cross, to save mankind. That flesh on the cross was real, not figurative. He equates the two in this passage. The flesh he's talking about needing to eat, is the flesh that will be given up for the world. So he cannot not be talking about it figuratively, otherwise his crucifixion was figurative as well.
Also, the word eat, in it's original form, meant, literally to chew or gnaw. That is pretty graphic. Not very figurative sounding. Also, nowhere else in the bible is the word used in a figurative way.
Everything points to literal. It's only hard for you to believe. As it was with the thousands of disciples that left. It was so hard to believe, that only twelve, of the thousands remained.
Yet they did not understand. Both conditions cannot be true.
Would juj like to clear things up for us?
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Well, errrr, uhmmmm... (what to say?)
