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What about Beelzebub? Seems that Beelzebub is the name of deity from the worship of Baal according to 2 Kings: Now Ahaziah had fallen through the lattice of his upper room in Samaria and injured himself. So he sent messengers, saying to them, "Go and consult Baal-Zebub, the god of Ekron, to see if I will recover from this injury."
Then we have the Pharisees saying that Jesus must be casting out demons by Beelzebub... interesting that the Pharisees believed that there was a god of Ekron.. isn't it? But is this also Satan?
I find it interesting that people believe in Satan... can you explain why you believe there is a bad guy and why you think that bad guy is powerful enough to bring more souls to "hell" than God is able to bring to "heaven?"
What about Beelzebub? Seems that Beelzebub is the name of deity from the worship of Baal according to 2 Kings: Now Ahaziah had fallen through the lattice of his upper room in Samaria and injured himself. So he sent messengers, saying to them, "Go and consult Baal-Zebub, the god of Ekron, to see if I will recover from this injury."
Then we have the Pharisees saying that Jesus must be casting out demons by Beelzebub... interesting that the Pharisees believed that there was a god of Ekron.. isn't it? But is this also Satan?
I find it interesting that people believe in Satan... can you explain why you believe there is a bad guy and why you think that bad guy is powerful enough to bring more souls to "hell" than God is able to bring to "heaven?"
I believe they are one in the same, nothing to convince me different.
again you are showing a wrong understanding of the trinitarian relationship and Christology. Jesus the Christ saves not God. God is powerful even if all are lost furthermore futuristic concerns about our destiny could become idolatrous and you are professing to know what is God's intentions by asking that question. Our focus is to "fix" our eyes upon Jesus, to know Him and the power of His ressurection.
I believe they are one in the same, nothing to convince me different.
again you are showing a wrong understanding of the trinitarian relationship and Christology. Jesus the Christ saves not God. God is powerful even if all are lost furthermore futuristic concerns about our destiny could become idolatrous and you are professing to know what is God's intentions by asking that question. Our focus is to "fix" our eyes upon Jesus, to know Him and the power of His ressurection.
Hmmmm... so even though Ezekiel 28 refers to a man as Lucifer.. and Beelzebub was an obvious false god or no god at all... they are still the same in your eyes?
Strong's 7854 has satan as an adversary or superhuman adversary of God... but points to the Hebrew word mabad #4566 which means work...
Now what is your understanding of satan in the context of the Greek and Hebrew words for adversary... is this a person or an attitude?
I don't wholly agree with you that God is not savior... but I think that is fodder for another thread..
I believe they are one in the same, nothing to convince me different.
again you are showing a wrong understanding of the trinitarian relationship and Christology. Jesus the Christ saves not God. God is powerful even if all are lost furthermore futuristic concerns about our destiny could become idolatrous and you are professing to know what is God's intentions by asking that question. Our focus is to "fix" our eyes upon Jesus, to know Him and the power of His ressurection.
What in the world is this?
Quote:
Jesus the Christ saves not God.
Interesting take on this Fundy. What does the scriptures say?
My shield is with God, Who saves the upright in heart.
Now I know that the LORD saves His anointed; He will answer him from His holy heaven With the saving strength of His right hand.
The LORD is near to the brokenhearted And saves those who are crushed in spirit.
The LORD helps them and delivers them; He delivers them from the wicked and saves them, Because they take refuge in Him.
What does Jesus say?
"For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son also gives life to whom He wishes.
So you say the Father doesn't save? Well, who do you think raised Jesus from the dead? Who do you think raised Lazarus from the dead?
What about Beelzebub? Seems that Beelzebub is the name of deity from the worship of Baal according to 2 Kings: Now Ahaziah had fallen through the lattice of his upper room in Samaria and injured himself. So he sent messengers, saying to them, "Go and consult Baal-Zebub, the god of Ekron, to see if I will recover from this injury."
Then we have the Pharisees saying that Jesus must be casting out demons by Beelzebub... interesting that the Pharisees believed that there was a god of Ekron.. isn't it? But is this also Satan?
I find it interesting that people believe in Satan... can you explain why you believe there is a bad guy and why you think that bad guy is powerful enough to bring more souls to "hell" than God is able to bring to "heaven?"
I do believe Satan was one of Lucifer's cohorts. They no longer exist. There was a heavenly trial, or war as some may call it. Not like our wars but like a courtroom. Very civil as I understand it. Anyway, Lucifer, Satan and Caligastia chose to not side with Christ Michael and God so they were annihilated in the mid 80's. The only proof I have of this is about a hundred channeled messages. I'd say take it to your soul and ponder it and ask God. I believe they are gone but most people don't.
All the hatred and wars in the world are only the after effects of the rebellion. We are in the Correcting Time and there are literally millions of humans and angels bringing us into Light and Life. I really wouldn't worry about the Lucifer stuff. It's over.
lucifer appears in several instances in the Latin bible, in one instance even Jesus is meant thereby!
Job 11:17
et quasi meridianus fulgor consurget tibi ad vesperam et *** te consumptum putaveris orieris ut lucifer
And brightness like that of the noonday, shall arise to thee at evening: and when thou shalt think thyself consumed, thou shalt rise as the day star.
Job 38:32
numquid producis luciferum in tempore suo et vesperum super filios terrae consurgere facis
Canst thou bring forth the day star in its time, and make the evening star to rise upon the children of the earth?
Psalm 110:3
tecum principium in die virtutis tuae in splendoribus sanctorum ex utero ante luciferum genui te
With thee is the principality in the day of thy strength: in the brightness of the saints: from the womb before the day star I begot thee.
Isaiah 14:12
quomodo cecidisti de caelo lucifer qui mane oriebaris corruisti in terram qui vulnerabas gentes
How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, who didst rise in the morning? how art thou fallen to the earth, that didst wound the nations?
I've quoted the Douay Rheims bible, translated from the Vulgate, here lucifer has simply been left untranslated.
How art thou fallen from heaven, O day-star, son of the morning! How art thou cut down to the ground, that didst cast lots over the nations!
The Jewish translation renders "day star" like "lucifer" has been rendered in all other versesin the Douay Rheims version
2 Peter 1:19
et habemus firmiorem propheticum sermonem cui bene facitis adtendentes quasi lucernae lucenti in caliginoso loco donec dies inlucescat et lucifer oriatur in cordibus vestris
And we have the more firm prophetical word: whereunto you do well to attend, as to a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn and the day star[lat. Lucifer] arise in your hearts.
here Jesus seems to be meant with "Lucifer", - day star
What about Beelzebub? Seems that Beelzebub is the name of deity from the worship of Baal according to 2 Kings: Now Ahaziah had fallen through the lattice of his upper room in Samaria and injured himself. So he sent messengers, saying to them, "Go and consult Baal-Zebub, the god of Ekron, to see if I will recover from this injury."
Then we have the Pharisees saying that Jesus must be casting out demons by Beelzebub... interesting that the Pharisees believed that there was a god of Ekron.. isn't it? But is this also Satan?
I find it interesting that people believe in Satan... can you explain why you believe there is a bad guy and why you think that bad guy is powerful enough to bring more souls to "hell" than God is able to bring to "heaven?"
Hi Kat,
Interesting. Lucifer is not a word in any bible (you already know that I know).
But if you don't believe in a literal "bad guy" being called Satan, what do you think Satan is in the bible? I see it as a possibility, but I still tend to think Satan is a created being. Certain passages in the bible (especially Job) seem to indicate this (that Satan is a separate being).
Is it just referring to a generic adversary? Or adversity? Perhaps the "inner beast" in all of us that doesn't want to obey, and thus causes our own adversity?
What about Beelzebub? Seems that Beelzebub is the name of deity from the worship of Baal according to 2 Kings: Now Ahaziah had fallen through the lattice of his upper room in Samaria and injured himself. So he sent messengers, saying to them, "Go and consult Baal-Zebub, the god of Ekron, to see if I will recover from this injury."
Then we have the Pharisees saying that Jesus must be casting out demons by Beelzebub... interesting that the Pharisees believed that there was a god of Ekron.. isn't it? But is this also Satan?
I find it interesting that people believe in Satan... can you explain why you believe there is a bad guy and why you think that bad guy is powerful enough to bring more souls to "hell" than God is able to bring to "heaven?"
I once did a thread somewhere around here that highlighted the utter ridiculousness of this Satan guy. If you had to use the theology of many Christians to give some examples, the god they claim they serve would look like a real loser.
Here's one of those examples working WITHIN the theology of some Christians. If unsaved people go to hell along with Satan, well he has managed to deceive the overwhelming majority of mankind since the beginning of time. Here's just a short list of those we figure are roasting in hell right now, thanks to the great deceiving power of Satan:
Cain
Cain's descendants
The people of Noah's Flood
The Sumerians
The Akkadians
The Babylonians
The Egyptians
The people of the Far East
The Assyrians
The Canaanites
The Hittites
The Amalekites
The Phoenicians
The Greeks
The Romans
The Persians
The Idumeans
Most of Ancient Africa
The Incas
The Aztes
The Olmecs
The Magogites
The ancient Ethiopians
The list goes on.
I'm supposed to believe that humans are part of some great plan, conceived by god when based on this theology the majority of mankind have gone to hell are going to hell and will go to hell. Sounds like a brilliant plan - NOT!!!
I once did a thread somewhere around here that highlighted the utter ridiculousness of this Satan guy. If you had to use the theology of many Christians to give some examples, the god they claim they serve would look like a real loser.
Bingo. This is the net effect of mainstream Christian theology: God loses more souls than Satan gets, God can't (or doesn't want to) stop Satan from doing this, but at least Satan gets it in the end...
Insane, you should research Christian UR (universal reconcilliation) more. Assuming you can believe there is a God (which you may not be able to), UR makes a whole lot more sense than mainstream theology. God actually does get the victory in UR.
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