Shouldn't Cincinnati and Dayton be counted as one metro area? (buy, to live in)

[TomJones123]

Originally Posted by kjbrill

But a commuter rail between Cincinnati and Dayton, that is different. It will have to involve state and/or federal money. So we can turn our focus to seeing that does not happen.

That's ok Brill. My 1 vote will cancel your 1 vote.

[unusualfire]

Nothing like having people around to sabotage a cities future. Since most of you don;t live in the city. Put your focus on other cities as well that has 14 billion dollar projects that paid for with tax pay money. Where were you when the Big dig was going on?

[flashes1]

Originally Posted by CinciFan

These were also the same people who have been pushing the development of the Banks, the Fountain Square renovation, Smale Riverfront Park, and Washington Park. Were you one of those people who thought those would be boondoggles too? How are those predictions working out for you?

Okay, I like the projects you listed from the beginning, but they aren't comparable projects to Freedom Center and street car because: 1) those projects benefit everyone in metro area whereas Freedom Center and the Street Car benefit a small niche especially the Freedom Center, and 2) the ongoing maintenance costs of the parks are minimal compared to the street car.

[TomJones123]

Originally Posted by abr7rmj

You'll excuse me if I dismiss your fears about the streetcar. Frankly, history is littered with forgettable people who claimed things "wouldn't work."

I really can't say I have lived anywhere where there is such a negative vibe towards a region's anchor city, except maybe Dayton. Perhaps this could be the most compelling reason for one MSA between the two. Both region's suburbs hate the their anchor cities.

[abr7rmj]

Originally Posted by flashes1

Okay, I like the projects you listed from the beginning, but they aren't comparable projects to Freedom Center and street car because: 1) those projects benefit everyone in metro area whereas Freedom Center and the Street Car benefit a small niche especially the Freedom Center, and 2) the ongoing maintenance costs of the parks are minimal compared to the street car.

Did it ever occur to you that, just perhaps, the mission of the Freedom Center isn't to rake in billions of dollars in profit. It was placed where it was for symbolic reasons and because of the importance of the Ohio River in helping slaves escape into freedom. It serves a national purpose of acknowledging and reflecting upon a period in our history as a nation that, frankly, deserves at least as much as that museum. Furthermore, it came at a time when our city was in dire need of something positive in relation to racial tensions.

I'm sorry you laughed at, mocked and boasted that it would fail, but I think you're missing its purpose entirely. And I'd be willing to bet that you've not once paid it a visit.

Don't forget, the Freedom Center was the first thing on the riverfront and was surrounded, for years, by nothing by rubble and surface parking lots - not the most welcoming place for visitors. Only now is the bigger picture of The Banks joining the museum. Give it more time to do what you think it should. It was never going to be an immediate money-maker but now it has a better chance to maximize its potential.

The same thing goes for the Riverfront Transit Center, which was built with future development in mind. It was never going to turn into Grand Central Station in its first week. It was planned and built with a clear future purpose in mind. Now, when we get light rail we won't have to worry about a downtown terminal because we'll already have one. Imagine trying to get support for that in a few years if it wasn't already built.

My suggestion to you is to turn off WLW and open your mind to the amazing things going on in your city now. Cincinnati is taking the next step - don't fight it.

[jmecklenborg]

>I am just glad they are having to do it without state or federal money which masks the cost.

Right, and the interstate highway system is free which "masks its cost". If it was paid for by tolls isntead of gasoline taxes, hardly anyone would use it.

As for commuter rail between Cincinnati and Dayton, "commuter rail" usually means diesel-powered trains on existing freight railroad tracks. You ask "where are the tracks?", well there are at least 3 and maybe 4 lines between Cincinnati and Dayton. They've all been there for 150+ years. The trains would use one of those tracks but would need a dedicated approach to Cincinnati that bypasses the Queensgate Yard. As I have mentioned to you specifically numerous times (but you always seem to forget and/or change the subject), it's estimated that construction of a dedicated approach track from the Ivorydale Junction at Mitchell Ave. to the Transit Center will cost about $200 million.

It's not that confusing. Unless you're from Mason.

[neilworms2]

benefit a small niche especially the Freedom Center

Actually the Freedom Center's biggest enemies are Cincinnatians because the local media has been critical of it since day one. I was one of them.

When I got my hair cut not long after moving to Chicago I got to talking with my barber and mentioned I was from the Cincy/Dayton area. He said, oh yeah, I have a relative there, you know what's the greatest thing there, the Freedom Center, amazing musuem, great stuff. I've been reading up a bit more on outsiders perceptions of Cincy (which they tend to know very little of because the city does very little to market itself to outsiders) I've found a fair number of good reviews of the place as a valid museum.

There are 3 things going against the center 1) negative press (possibly racist) from the enquirer regarding it. 2) Lack of publicity to outsiders of Cincinnati's assets 3) The Banks languishing for 10 years due to a really badly written and rushed deal to support an extortion artist (Mike Brown) who should have been forced out of town for even proposing such a horrible deal in the first place - it took years to resolve the conflict between the city and county over said deal.

Here are some outsiders positive perceptions of the Freedom Center, I think its an asset, but it needs to fight against the garbage that the local establishment has thrown in its direction, and like the rest of the city promote itself outside the region:

Reality Check at Underground Railroad Freedom Center | Wake and Wander
National Underground Railroad Freedom Center - 102 Reviews of National Underground Railroad Freedom Center - TripAdvisor (note all the out of town folks giving it good reviews).

[flashes1]

Originally Posted by TomJones123

I really can't say I have lived anywhere where there is such a negative vibe towards a region's anchor city, except maybe Dayton. Perhaps this could be the most compelling reason for one MSA between the two. Both region's suburbs hate the their anchor cities.

Just because you're against the street car doesn't mean you're against the anchor city. That's an unfair characterization. Myself and kjbrill have done nothing but cheer on downtown. On the other hand, the downtown liberals have done nothing but insult the people who choose to live in the country. That hasn't gone unnoticed.

[flashes1]

Originally Posted by abr7rmj

Did it ever occur to you that, just perhaps, the mission of the Freedom Center isn't to rake in billions of dollars in profit. It was placed where it was for symbolic reasons and because of the importance of the Ohio River in helping slaves escape into freedom. It serves a national purpose of acknowledging and reflecting upon a period in our history as a nation that, frankly, deserves at least as much as that museum. Furthermore, it came at a time when our city was in dire need of something positive in relation to racial tensions.

I'm sorry you laughed at, mocked and boasted that it would fail, but I think you're missing its purpose entirely. And I'd be willing to bet that you've not once paid it a visit.

Don't forget, the Freedom Center was the first thing on the riverfront and was surrounded, for years, by nothing by rubble and surface parking lots - not the most welcoming place for visitors. Only now is the bigger picture of The Banks joining the museum. Give it more time to do what you think it should. It was never going to be an immediate money-maker but now it has a better chance to maximize its potential.
.

No one's arguing the purpose of the Freedom Center. If P&G and Ford Motor Company want to pay for it, then I say good for them. If people want to support it by paying for tickets, again, I say good for them! People are arguing that it shouldn't be supported by tax payer money especially the operating losses. That makes people mad. It caters to a small niche.....there was no reason to build the palace they built. Total and complete waste of resources.

Yes, I of course have never visited and never will. My ancestors came here in rags in the early 1900's......we're self supporting and don't take handouts.....even in Fairfax and Price Hill during the Great Depression.

[unusualfire]

Every museum is supported or subsidized by taxpayers. I bet ever museum in the Cincinnati area(Most cities actually) is in the red, but they don't talk about it.