Cincinnati Streetcar Under Construction (Dayton, Kent: sale, leasing, purchase)

[natininja]

It's not as though Cincinnati customers don't pay for utility relocation in Butler and Warren counties. How silly all this is. No rationality whatsoever. All because Duke wants to try to take advantage of ancient laws that were written when streetcars were privately owned/operated and considered utilities. Can you imagine if they had just treated this as they do any other roadway project?

[rrtechno]

I believe there is a difference between spreading the cost through current rates to cover the cost of doing business (normal and incidental re-locations and maintenance) and the enactment of a rate increase to cover the cost of a specific project.

[hensleya1]

Originally Posted by natininja

It's not as though Cincinnati customers don't pay for utility relocation in Butler and Warren counties. How silly all this is. No rationality whatsoever. All because Duke wants to try to take advantage of ancient laws that were written when streetcars were privately owned/operated and considered utilities. Can you imagine if they had just treated this as they do any other roadway project?

Hi natininja--

The problem is, a streetcar only benefits Downtown and OTR.

Upgrading I-75 benefits the whole region, so it's only fair the whole region gets hit with a rate increase to pay for it.

[n8buckeye08]

Originally Posted by hensleya1

Hi natininja--

The problem is, a streetcar only benefits Downtown and OTR.

Upgrading I-75 benefits the whole region, so it's only fair the whole region gets hit with a rate increase to pay for it.

If successful in continuing downtown's resurgence, it will benefit the entire region. The better Cincinnati is seen, the easier it will be to attract and/or retain top talent in the region. This leads to increases in property value and the regional economy. To hear Butler County residents whine about a small incidental increase seems a little laughable to me when I think they benefit greatly from all the City of Cincinnati and Hamilton County residents shell out for their enjoyment (zoo, sports teams, museums, interesting neighborhoods).

[WILWRadio]

Perhaps a couple of rail lines or at least space for them should be included in the design of the new bridge. Then if the Cincy spur of the Street car proves to be a success, it could then be extended into Covington and reach other areas of NKY connecting communities on both sides of the river.

[kjbrill]

Originally Posted by n8buckeye08

If successful in continuing downtown's resurgence, it will benefit the entire region. The better Cincinnati is seen, the easier it will be to attract and/or retain top talent in the region. This leads to increases in property value and the regional economy. To hear Butler County residents whine about a small incidental increase seems a little laughable to me when I think they benefit greatly from all the City of Cincinnati and Hamilton County residents shell out for their enjoyment (zoo, sports teams, museums, interesting neighborhoods).

Have you bought a zoo admission recently? Hardly call that subsidized. Most of the major improvements at the zoo are from donations (wills), not taxes. The zoo currently only gets about 20% of its budget from the tax levy.

The sports teams would die if it weren't for all of the people outside of Hamilton Co. buying their overpriced tickets.

All of the justification for the streetcar was for the fantastic economic investment it would bring into Cincinnati. Only Cincinnati got to vote on it, so let Cincinnati pay for it.

And yes, I will whine about an incidental increase in my utility bills since they never go away.

Look at the mess Hamilton Co. got itself into when they voted for the sales tax for the stadiums with the understanding the county property taxes would be reduced as compensation so the actual sales tax would be paid by out of county people, in other words free money to the county. So what has happened, sales tax revenue has fallen below that necessary to pay the debt on the stadiums. So what is the solution, the county commissioners rescinded the property tax reduction. Just took the easy route and went back on their word to the people. Apparently the only vote they needed to do that was their own.

I do say go ahead and build the damn streetcar so it can be determined whether to be the best thing since sliced bread or the biggest debacle since the stadiums.

I feel this current raff over people outside of Cincinnati being billed for the utility relocation via a rate increase is a big smoke-screen. Duke Energy is a large company and I am sure has a battery of lawyers on retainer. They are just putting down any groundwork they think has a ghost of a chance in court or before PUCO. That is what big companies do. Rile up all of the people in Butler and Warren counties to be anti-streetcar. Have them scream and holler, which frankly I will.

My opinion in this entire matter - Cincinnati will be told to pay Duke's utility relocation costs. This is not a street project, it is a streetcar project, two totally different things.

Well, how many more months of this do we have to endure, and when is actual construction going to begin? Or will the City drag its heels so the next mayoral election becomes a yet third referendum on the streetcar?

[natininja]

Originally Posted by hensleya1

Hi natininja--

The problem is, a streetcar only benefits Downtown and OTR.

Upgrading I-75 benefits the whole region, so it's only fair the whole region gets hit with a rate increase to pay for it.

When did I say I was just talking about I-75?

[natininja]

Originally Posted by kjbrill

Only Cincinnati got to vote on it, so let Cincinnati pay for it.

Utility work for public works projects all over the region gets absorbed into rates paid by everyone. Why should this particular project be different?

You're getting suckered into the silliness.

Frankly, people in North Carolina are probably also paying for utility work up here and vice versa. Paying special attention to the streetcar in this regard is literally quibbling over pennies. Actually, probably fractions of a penny. We probably all contributed to relocation for Charlotte's light rail, among countless road and other projects wherever Duke operates.

[kjbrill]

Originally Posted by natininja

Utility work for public works projects all over the region gets absorbed into rates paid by everyone. Why should this particular project be different?

You're getting suckered into the silliness.

Frankly, people in North Carolina are probably also paying for utility work up here and vice versa. Paying special attention to the streetcar in this regard is literally quibbling over pennies. Actually, probably fractions of a penny. We probably all contributed to relocation for Charlotte's light rail, among countless road and other projects wherever Duke operates.

You are probably right, but that is what organizations like PUCO are supposedly for. If the utility companies can just spread their costs at will then outfits like PUCO are just another expense with no benefit. Of course that is like most government agencies.

[natininja]

Duke has expenses which cut into their bottom line, some due to various relocation projects. They tell PUCO they need to increase rates to make a reasonable profit. PUCO adjusts that number down but gives them an increase. Who's to say what the increase is "for"? It's to cover Duke's expenses, generally, which are many and over a wide area.

Any attempt to articulate exactly what the increase is for is a marketing technique/publicity stunt.