Progressive Culture in Cincinnati? Cincinnati v. Portland? (Ada, Peebles: condo, high crime)

[progmac]

Originally Posted by NicoleRic

The transformation on Calhoun is pretty amazing. There is a true urban canyon effect there now. Unfortunately McMillan still needs a lot of work. I just hope the development has a positive effect on the rest of the neighborhood. I've heard people say that they feel the whole Clifton area has really gone downhill in the past 10-20 years despite all the new developments.

As somebody who hung around clifton A LOT 10 years ago, it has NOT gone downhill since then. Quite the opposite. UC is a totally different school than it used to be. Others on this board remember the short vine hayday of the 80s (???), but that was long gone by the time I was there. It wasn't too long ago when instead of U square at the loop or whatever, there was a taco bell drive through.

The McMillan street business district is still my favorite business district in the City. I don't think it should change at all.

[t45209]

Originally Posted by NicoleRic

The transformation on Calhoun is pretty amazing. There is a true urban canyon effect there now. Unfortunately McMillan still needs a lot of work. I just hope the development has a positive effect on the rest of the neighborhood. I've heard people say that they feel the whole Clifton area has really gone downhill in the past 10-20 years despite all the new developments.

It seems that the leadership in Walnut Hills is very good but redevelopment is moving very slowly. I wish the city could find some creative ways to help things along. Some of the large buildings along the business district are probably pretty expensive to rehab and like Over the Rhine the average person may not be able to do it. I remember there was some complaining on the WHRF page when they tore a historic building down and that there would be an outcry if that had happened in Over the Rhine. The WHRF responded that they did not have a 3cdc and endless money to stabilize buildings that were that far gone.

I have to disagree with these comments, too. Most of Clifton is better than what it was when I hung out there 20 years ago. The only area that I would say has experienced a decline is Short Vine in University Heights. It's a ghost town compared to the days when it was home to Zino's Firehouse and even a Red Lobster. True, the bar scene that once existed on McMillan is also a shadow of its former self, but I don't see many people lamenting the lost halcyon days of dives like Mr K's, Grady's, and Clifton Yacht Club. And as far as the residential component, it's as good or as bad as it ever was, and in most cases better.

Also, there have been some recent developments in Walnut Hills that could spur things along. First, the city's oldest firehouse, built in 1878 on McMillan, was stabilized, and after 30 years of sitting as a burned out empty shell, it has a new roof and interior. Heading east on McMillan, the block on the south side of the street containing several historic buildings, including the Hauck, The Tavarren, and the original Graeter's Ice Cream shop was acquired by a developer from the city on a 40 year lease to be rehabbed. They are obtaining historic tax credits to restore the buildings and plans include street level retail with 30 MARKET RATE residential units in the upper floors.

As far as the original thread topic is concerned, it's really pointless in my opinion to compare the two. It really depends on your tastes an interests...someone who likes pro sports, for example, would find Portland to be an awful place.

[NicoleRic]

I agree that the west side of campus is much improved. The Ludlow district seems pretty stagnant. I have an uncle who went to UC in the early nineties and he said that the eastern parts of campus really have gone downhill since he was there. My brother and his girlfriend lived in uptown for five years and both were more than ready to get out and move to Oakley. Their friends were also happy to get out. Uptown is a long way away from being a desirable place to live for many. The crime in particular is really an issue.

I drove through Walnut Hills a couple weeks ago. It is nice to see there are a few projects planned there, but at the current rate it has a LONG way to go. Over the Rhine is turning around quickly because it has a 3CDC backed by all of the local corporations throwing money at it. Even with 3CDC it will probably take at least another twenty years for Over the Rhine to completely turn around, and it is ahead of Walnut Hills with much more visibility and resources.

I'm not trying to be overly negative but it is frustrating realizing in your mid twenties that many of the most beautiful and urban areas in your city will not be a great place to live until I am in my fifties if the current trend continues. Maybe the streetcar can speed development along.

[progmac]

Originally Posted by NicoleRic

I'm not trying to be overly negative but it is frustrating realizing in your mid twenties that many of the most beautiful and urban areas in your city will not be a great place to live until I am in my fifties if the current trend continues. Maybe the streetcar can speed development along.

And when they are "great" we'll have a whole host of other things to complain about (expensive! no character! boring!). I know that if my neighborhood became like hyde park, I would move

[Ohiogirl81]

Even with 3CDC it will probably take at least another twenty years for Over the Rhine to completely turn around, and it is ahead of Walnut Hills with much more visibility and resources.

I'm not trying to be overly negative but it is frustrating realizing in your mid twenties that many of the most beautiful and urban areas in your city will not be a great place to live until I am in my fifties if the current trend continues.

You're not being negative, you're being realistic: Some of us are in our 50s already, and have been waiting 20 and 30 years for neighborhoods like Corryville and Mt. Auburn and Price Hill and Walnut Hills to improve. Plans start, something happens, momentum fizzles ... I'm not saying it will or won't happen this time; it would be fantastic if the momentum continued.

[NicoleRic]

Originally Posted by progmac

And when they are "great" we'll have a whole host of other things to complain about (expensive! no character! boring!). I know that if my neighborhood became like hyde park, I would move

The problem is that as it stands now most of the neighborhoods in the inner city are really for urban pioneers. As a single female I would not feel comfortable living by myself and walking the streets alone in most areas of the inner city. I love urban areas and am aware that you have be aware of your surroundings. I feel that I have a higher tolerance level than most. The reality right now is that most people would not feel comfortable living in most areas for safety reasons. There are exceptions. I would feel comfortable living in the CBD, for example. I wouldn't want to live in Hyde Park either, but there are not enough wealthy people living in this area for the entire inner city to become like Hyde Park.

[jmecklenborg]

Short Vine was hopping until about 2000 when the winds changed lots of people that used to live in Corryville moved to Northside. It seemed to coincide with the opening of NorthsideTavern and The Comet. People now can't possibly imagine how lively that strip used to be with Sudy's hosting 3 rock bands 365 nights a year. It was quite literally a few blocks lifted and transported from the Sunset Strip. Every kind of person was there.

Northside's strip is also eclectic, bit it's a bit more spaced out and certainly not centered around music venues. Northside Tavern is okay but simply doesn't have the energy that Bogart's, Sudsy's, and similar rock clubs around the country had in the 90s, when college rock was a dominant cultural force. All that evaporated with the post-2000 rise of hipsters and the inexplicable popularity of euro electronic music.

[kjbrill]

Originally Posted by NicoleRic

The problem is that as it stands now most of the neighborhoods in the inner city are really for urban pioneers. As a single female I would not feel comfortable living by myself and walking the streets alone in most areas of the inner city. I love urban areas and am aware that you have be aware of your surroundings. I feel that I have a higher tolerance level than most. The reality right now is that most people would not feel comfortable living in most areas for safety reasons. There are exceptions. I would feel comfortable living in the CBD, for example. I wouldn't want to live in Hyde Park either, but there are not enough wealthy people living in this area for the entire inner city to become like Hyde Park.

But if you dare state that the inner urban areas are still somewhere to be guarded for your safety you are labeled as Anti-City. To me it is more good sense. Hyde Park itself is an amalgamate. It has sections of some of the most prestigous homes in the city. It also has fringes with multi-story apartment buildings you would hope to find fancier digs in Oakley. I am old enough to have traveled through Hyde Park Square over 50 years ago. I don't see much change there, still small and fulll of hoity toity shops which seem to come and go on a regular basis. As far as walking from Hyde Park Square to Rookwood Commons, no thank you I will either drive or take a cab. But I would take Hyde Park hands down compared to OTR, even in it resurgence.

[NicoleRic]

Originally Posted by kjbrill

Hyde Park itself is an amalgamate. It has sections of some of the most prestigous homes in the city. It also has fringes with multi-story apartment buildings you would hope to find fancier digs in Oakley.

I would not want to live in Hyde Park because of the attitude of many of the people who live there. It is, however, one of the few walkable neighborhoods in this region where one can feel safe walking around. Which is a shame. I am rooting for the inner city because I love architecture and walkable neighborhoods but it has a long way to go to appeal to the masses. Places like Over the Rhine, East Walnut Hills and Northside are certainly headed in the right direction. I drive through Mt Auburn everyday but outside of Prospect Hill there is absolutely nothing going on in that neighborhood. Walnut Hills does not does not have any buzz or energy about it outside of a few urban pioneers who closely follow what is going on in the city. Most of uptown is not perceived as safe by most people.

[Ohiogirl81]

Originally Posted by jmecklenborg

Short Vine was hopping until about 2000 when the winds changed lots of people that used to live in Corryville moved to Northside. It seemed to coincide with the opening of NorthsideTavern and The Comet.

Corryville suffered from a lot of loitering and loitering-related crimes, maybe that started around the mid-90s? Remember when the city started pumping classical music over loudspeakers on the street? Some of the restaurants and shops closed, people who patronized them stopped coming to the neighborhood, and the downward spiral began.

I don't think I've been to Corryville in at least 10 years, and that was to go to Kinko's for work.

People now can't possibly imagine how lively that strip used to be with Sudy's hosting 3 rock bands 365 nights a year. It was quite literally a few blocks lifted and transported from the Sunset Strip. Every kind of person was there.

I was at Bogart's or Sudsy's at least twice a week. Seems like all my discretionary funds in those days went to cover charges, admission fees and ... beer. Good times ...