01-14-2013, 12:10 PM
Location: Cincinnati
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
jmecklenborg
The suviving "City Hall West" blocks between Central Ave. and John St. give some indication as to what was lost, which tended to be single family town homes of a very high quality.
I have made a point to explore that area block by block, I absolutely love it over there and I agree that it gives a good indication of what was lost.
01-14-2013, 12:28 PM
Location: Chicago, IL
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Yeah a lot of the old West End was still middle class and Jewish up until the 1940s its a downright lie that it was all slums. Of course looking at old pics it is nothing compared to how slums look today, more like how the tenderloin in San Francisco is today (though its been very quickly gentrifying from that point), a bad neighborhood with some abandonedment, but still pretty vibrant with plenty of relatively well kept neighborhoods not necessarily having the highest quality housing but still a coherent populated place.
Quote:
Aside from Mt. Adams I don't think the historic areas in Cincinnati are completely distinct from something that exists elsewhere. Over-the-Rhine is obviously a lot like Brooklyn and other areas of New York City. And actually the architectural style is a lot like the North End although the North End obviously has twisting narrow streets.
I'd even argue Mt Adams has quite a bit in common with a lot of hillside San Francisco neighborhoods, though the architectural mix tends to be older and more brick in Cincy. OTR is only one of handful of neighborhoods like it in the country, not even Chicago has an equivalent any more.
01-14-2013, 12:31 PM
Location: "Daytonnati"
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Quote:
I'd even argue Mt Adams has quite a bit in common with a lot of hillside San Francisco neighborhoods,
The area that reallly reminds of SF (maybe more Sausalito) is Tusculum.
01-14-2013, 01:18 PM
Location: Mason, OH
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Reputation: 1956
By the time I was married in 1962, I remember going to a custom furniture house in the West End which both recovered, mostly for customers of stores like Pogue's and Closson's, and built custom furniture.
My wife and I went there to have a living room couch and chair manufactured by them as I wanted a traditional Lawson style with deep enough seats and high back to fit my large frame and she didn't want her feet off the floor. The owner of the business was an older man who knew my father through the trades. He took me back into their workroom where they were assembling some courch frames. He said get up on the front center of that frame and jump up and down with all your weight. I was about 270 at that time. He said that is a 2x8 solid oak front beam and you will not crack it. Over a period of years, abuse by 4 kids, 2 recoverings, etc. the couch finally bit the dust since its back springs were not salvagable. But 50 years later we still have the single chair in our family room - that is my chair , built for me .
I remember during our visit looking around and thinking man this surrounding area is the pits. There may have been a lot of older well-built homes with a variety of architecture, but by even the 1960s it was crappy. That may be due to even then they had been demoing the West End.
I am not against rehabbing and retaining the varied architecture within the city. Some lament many older homes have been demolished, some of them may have been saved with a concentration of investment , but others were just falling down.
A home is just a place to live, and we have plenty of homes available in the Cincinnati Area where you can live comfortably, raise a family, and hopefully get as old as I am and retire. I am much more concerned about the loss of jobs and the ability for families to live in any home , urban or suburban.
The originality we need is how to create, keep and retain jobs . Tourism may have done well for certain cities in the past. But I do not believe the current economy can rely on tourism. Every crest has a peak, an in my estimation the tourism/lovely architecture areas have already peaked . If we keep striving to emulate those areas which have achieved the tourism success based on nostalgic
architecture, we will never equal them. We need something unique to Cincinnati. I don't know what that is. Maybe our slogan needs to be We achieve when others fail, because We Care.
01-14-2013, 01:25 PM
Location: Cincinnati
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
kjbrill
I am not against rehabbing and retaining the varied architecture within the city. Some lament many older homes have been demolished, some of them may have been saved with a concentration of investment , but others were just falling down.
A home is just a place to live, and we have plenty of homes available in the Cincinnati Area where you can live comfortably, raise a family, and hopefully get as old as I am and retire.
I mean no offense by what I am about to say, so please do not take this personally. I think your point of view on the subject of old homes/architecture is somewhat representative of native Cincinnatians not realizing, or caring, about Cincinnati's history and heritage.
As for jobs, tourism could very well be a lucrative industry for Cincinnati. Not that we would ever be a tourist town, but it could add a lot to the economy we already have and perhaps help replace lost manufacturing jobs.
In many ways, Cincinnati could have become the San Francisco of the mid-west. Sadly, a lot of Cincinnati has vanished in the name of progress. Very short sited, IMO.
01-14-2013, 01:45 PM
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Kjbrill doesn't understand that every city in America has areas just like his beloved Mason, Tri-County, Loveland, etc. Atlanta for example probably has 10 Masons but it has zero historic areas, aside from those bungalow/shotgun neighborhoods that are in every southern city.
There are only about a dozen American cities with significant historic areas, and Cincinnati is one of them. The historic areas, where they exist, are prized in every other city in the United States except Cincinnati and maybe St. Louis, where they also exist in large numbers but are often in marginal shape.
Fact is people visit Cincinnati and are in disbelief that so many historic homes are left to rot. These same homes would be worth millions in other cities. I live in a circa 1870 brick row house that is valued at about $200,000. It's better built and naturally cooler in the summer and warmer in the winter than anything in Mason. In its current condition it would be worth several million in San Francisco. Kjbrill's generation thinks of these old homes as a problem . Something akin to Marilyn Mason.
01-14-2013, 01:51 PM
Location: Cincinnati
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
jmecklenborg
Fact is people visit Cincinnati and are in disbelief that so many historic homes are left to rot. These same homes would be worth millions in other cities. I live in a circa 1870 brick row house that is valued at about $200,000. It's better built and naturally cooler in the summer and warmer in the winter than anything in Mason. In its current condition it would be worth several million in San Francisco. Kjbrill's generation thinks of these old homes as a problem . Something akin to Marilyn Mason.
Having lived all over the country, and especially NYC, I can concur with your assessment. There are homes sitting vacant in OTR and West End that would be multi-million dollar properties in New York or San Francisco.
Even Baton Rouge does a better job than Cincinnati with it's historic districts. Check the link to The Garden District:
http://gdcabr.org/history.php
01-14-2013, 02:26 PM
Location: Indianapolis and Cincinnati
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There is definitely a local disconnect. Locals do not see the value in historic architecture.
Last summer our neighborhood had its first home tour ( and Knox Hill is in Fairmount). Our home tour called the "Preservation Opportunity Tour" showcased homes in various stages of restoration. We also had an Old Car show and two walking tours.
In spite of it being a very hot (in the 90's day).There were a few locals who got up the courage to venture into what they believed was a dangerous neighborhood. The majority were from out of state (one preservationist couple from Texas planned their vacation around our tour) and they were blown away by the architecture, and the views, so much so their Texas home is for sale and their goal is to move to Cincinnati.
Occaisionally on my blog I feature old homes that are in my opinion Preservation "bargains". Probably over the last 3 years maybe 20 homes. Some were close to demolition, I might add. Guess what ? The majority were bought by out of town , or out of state people and are now under restoration in areas of Price Hill, Avondale, Fairmount etc that locals wouldn't drive to in broad daylight.
For those that think Heritage Tourism is over, Findlay Market had almost one million vistors last year and it grows every year. Go over to Dayton Street in warm weather and you will see people walking around looking at the architecture. Everytime CPA does a walking tour of a neighborhood it's packed.
The interest is there, the people are there, but city leadership is unwilling to make changes to the building permit processes, increase tax abatements, reduce permitting fees and other simple things that will encourage investment. The city would rather keep a few demo contractors in business. In the meantime our property tax base erodes, Because the city is addicted to that Federal CDBG funding and part of that pays administrative overhead. The more "need' you have , the more monies you are eligible for. There are 5000 properties on the keep vacant/condemed list and the city is on track to demo 900 using the state money they got. Imagine 5000 homes gone?
While other cities are embracing their history we seem intent on being Detroit.
01-14-2013, 02:34 PM
Location: Mason, OH
9,259 posts, read
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Reputation: 1956
Just a small inquiry fellows. After you are dead and gone, who is going to give a damn about the properties you are renovating? Do you have a lineage set up who will maintain the property you have so meticulously conserved?
As I have said preservation and restoration are noble aims. But in and of themselves they will only last as long as their surroundings.
Quite simply, Cincinnati is NO T NYC or San Francisco. So for what someone may pay $1 million dollars for in one of those two cities they will pass up here, simply because they do not want to live in Cincinnati .
Oh that tears me up horribly. Someone wants to tear down Cincinnati for living in NYC. Why should I GAD about that? Yes, Give a Damn about it!
We have one of the greatest cities in the country to grow up in, raise a family, and hopefully retire here.
For those who want to attack us for whatever reason. I have only one saying, please leave and leave us alone.
01-14-2013, 02:44 PM
Location: Cincinnati
4,482 posts, read
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Reputation: 1331
Quote:
Originally Posted by
kjbrill
Just a small inquiry fellows. After you are dead and gone, who is going to give a damn about the properties you are renovating? Do you have a lineage set up who will maintain the property you have so meticulously conserved?
As I have said preservation and restoration are noble aims. But in and of themselves they will only last as long as their surroundings.
So short sighted. Cities around the country have been rebuilt over the years on preservation and restoration, becoming very vibrant, attracting residents, businesses, etc. Growing, thriving cities. Cincinnati is catching on, and hopefully in the not so distant future will follow suit.
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Most Common Occupations - Office and administrative support occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Natural resources, construction, and maintenance occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Farming, fishing, and forestry occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Construction and extraction occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Installation, maintenance, and repair occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Production, transportation, and material moving occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Production occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Transportation occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Material moving occupations (%)
People in Group quarters - Institutionalized population (%)
People in Group quarters - Correctional institutions (%)
People in Group quarters - Federal prisons and detention centers (%)
People in Group quarters - Halfway houses (%)
People in Group quarters - Local jails and other confinement facilities (including police lockups) (%)
People in Group quarters - Military disciplinary barracks (%)
People in Group quarters - State prisons (%)
People in Group quarters - Other types of correctional institutions (%)
People in Group quarters - Nursing homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospitals/wards, hospices, and schools for the handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospitals/wards and hospices for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospices or homes for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Military hospitals or wards for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Other hospitals or wards for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospitals or wards for drug/alcohol abuse (%)
People in Group quarters - Mental (Psychiatric) hospitals or wards (%)
People in Group quarters - Schools, hospitals, or wards for the mentally retarded (%)
People in Group quarters - Schools, hospitals, or wards for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Institutions for the deaf (%)
People in Group quarters - Institutions for the blind (%)
People in Group quarters - Orthopedic wards and institutions for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Wards in general hospitals for patients who have no usual home elsewhere (%)
People in Group quarters - Wards in military hospitals for patients who have no usual home elsewhere (%)
People in Group quarters - Juvenile institutions (%)
People in Group quarters - Long-term care (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for abused, dependent, and neglected children (%)
People in Group quarters - Residential treatment centers for emotionally disturbed children (%)
People in Group quarters - Training schools for juvenile delinquents (%)
People in Group quarters - Short-term care, detention or diagnostic centers for delinquent children (%)
People in Group quarters - Type of juvenile institution unknown (%)
People in Group quarters - Noninstitutionalized population (%)
People in Group quarters - College dormitories (includes college quarters off campus) (%)
People in Group quarters - Military quarters (%)
People in Group quarters - On base (%)
People in Group quarters - Barracks, unaccompanied personnel housing (UPH), (Enlisted/Officer), ;and similar group living quarters for military personnel (%)
People in Group quarters - Transient quarters for temporary residents (%)
People in Group quarters - Military ships (%)
People in Group quarters - Group homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes or halfway houses for drug/alcohol abuse (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the mentally ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the mentally retarded (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Other group homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Religious group quarters (%)
People in Group quarters - Dormitories (%)
People in Group quarters - Agriculture workers' dormitories on farms (%)
People in Group quarters - Job Corps and vocational training facilities (%)
People in Group quarters - Other workers' dormitories (%)
People in Group quarters - Crews of maritime vessels (%)
People in Group quarters - Other nonhousehold living situations (%)
People in Group quarters - Other noninstitutional group quarters (%)
Residents speaking English at home (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Foreign born (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Foreign born (%)
Residents speaking other language at home (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Foreign born (%)
Class of Workers - Employee of private company (%)
Class of Workers - Self-employed in own incorporated business (%)
Class of Workers - Private not-for-profit wage and salary workers (%)
Class of Workers - Local government workers (%)
Class of Workers - State government workers (%)
Class of Workers - Federal government workers (%)
Class of Workers - Self-employed workers in own not incorporated business and Unpaid family workers (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Utility gas (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Bottled, tank, or LP gas (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Electricity (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Fuel oil, kerosene, etc. (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Coal or coke (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Wood (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Solar energy (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Other fuel (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - No fuel used (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Utility gas (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Bottled, tank, or LP gas (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Electricity (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Fuel oil, kerosene, etc. (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Coal or coke (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Wood (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Solar energy (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Other fuel (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - No fuel used (%)
Armed forces status - In Armed Forces (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian - Veteran (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian - Nonveteran (%)
Fatal accidents locations in years 2005-2021
Fatal accidents locations in 2005
Fatal accidents locations in 2006
Fatal accidents locations in 2007
Fatal accidents locations in 2008
Fatal accidents locations in 2009
Fatal accidents locations in 2010
Fatal accidents locations in 2011
Fatal accidents locations in 2012
Fatal accidents locations in 2013
Fatal accidents locations in 2014
Fatal accidents locations in 2015
Fatal accidents locations in 2016
Fatal accidents locations in 2017
Fatal accidents locations in 2018
Fatal accidents locations in 2019
Fatal accidents locations in 2020
Fatal accidents locations in 2021
Alcohol use - People drinking some alcohol every month (%)
Alcohol use - People not drinking at all (%)
Alcohol use - Average days/month drinking alcohol
Alcohol use - Average drinks/week
Alcohol use - Average days/year people drink much
Audiometry - Average condition of hearing (%)
Audiometry - People that can hear a whisper from across a quiet room (%)
Audiometry - People that can hear normal voice from across a quiet room (%)
Audiometry - Ears ringing, roaring, buzzing (%)
Audiometry - Had a job exposure to loud noise (%)
Audiometry - Had off-work exposure to loud noise (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Has high blood pressure (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Checking blood pressure at home (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Frequently checking blood cholesterol (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Has high cholesterol level (%)
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on food at supermarket/grocery store
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on food at other stores
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on eating out
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on carryout/delivered foods
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on food at supermarket/grocery store (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on food at other stores (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on eating out (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on carryout/delivered foods (%)
Current Health Status - General health condition (%)
Current Health Status - Blood donors (%)
Current Health Status - Has blood ever tested for HIV virus (%)
Current Health Status - Left-handed people (%)
Dermatology - People using sunscreen (%)
Diabetes - Diabetics (%)
Diabetes - Had a blood test for high blood sugar (%)
Diabetes - People taking insulin (%)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Diet health (%)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Milk product consumption (# of products/month)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Meals not home prepared (#/week)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Meals from fast food or pizza place (#/week)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Ready-to-eat foods (#/month)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Frozen meals/pizza (#/month)
Drug Use - People that ever used marijuana or hashish (%)
Drug Use - Ever used hard drugs (%)
Drug Use - Ever used any form of cocaine (%)
Drug Use - Ever used heroin (%)
Drug Use - Ever used methamphetamine (%)
Health Insurance - People covered by health insurance (%)
Kidney Conditions-Urology - Avg. # of times urinating at night
Medical Conditions - People with asthma (%)
Medical Conditions - People with anemia (%)
Medical Conditions - People with psoriasis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with overweight (%)
Medical Conditions - Elderly people having difficulties in thinking or remembering (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever received blood transfusion (%)
Medical Conditions - People having trouble seeing even with glass/contacts (%)
Medical Conditions - People with arthritis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with gout (%)
Medical Conditions - People with congestive heart failure (%)
Medical Conditions - People with coronary heart disease (%)
Medical Conditions - People with angina pectoris (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had heart attack (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had stroke (%)
Medical Conditions - People with emphysema (%)
Medical Conditions - People with thyroid problem (%)
Medical Conditions - People with chronic bronchitis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with any liver condition (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had cancer or malignancy (%)
Mental Health - People who have little interest in doing things (%)
Mental Health - People feeling down, depressed, or hopeless (%)
Mental Health - People who have trouble sleeping or sleeping too much (%)
Mental Health - People feeling tired or having little energy (%)
Mental Health - People with poor appetite or overeating (%)
Mental Health - People feeling bad about themself (%)
Mental Health - People who have trouble concentrating on things (%)
Mental Health - People moving or speaking slowly or too fast (%)
Mental Health - People having thoughts they would be better off dead (%)
Oral Health - Average years since last visit a dentist
Oral Health - People embarrassed because of mouth (%)
Oral Health - People with gum disease (%)
Oral Health - General health of teeth and gums (%)
Oral Health - Average days a week using dental floss/device
Oral Health - Average days a week using mouthwash for dental problem
Oral Health - Average number of teeth
Pesticide Use - Households using pesticides to control insects (%)
Pesticide Use - Households using pesticides to kill weeds (%)
Physical Activity - People doing vigorous-intensity work activities (%)
Physical Activity - People doing moderate-intensity work activities (%)
Physical Activity - People walking or bicycling (%)
Physical Activity - People doing vigorous-intensity recreational activities (%)
Physical Activity - People doing moderate-intensity recreational activities (%)
Physical Activity - Average hours a day doing sedentary activities
Physical Activity - Average hours a day watching TV or videos
Physical Activity - Average hours a day using computer
Physical Functioning - People having limitations keeping them from working (%)
Physical Functioning - People limited in amount of work they can do (%)
Physical Functioning - People that need special equipment to walk (%)
Physical Functioning - People experiencing confusion/memory problems (%)
Physical Functioning - People requiring special healthcare equipment (%)
Prescription Medications - Average number of prescription medicines taking
Preventive Aspirin Use - Adults 40+ taking low-dose aspirin (%)
Reproductive Health - Vaginal deliveries (%)
Reproductive Health - Cesarean deliveries (%)
Reproductive Health - Deliveries resulted in a live birth (%)
Reproductive Health - Pregnancies resulted in a delivery (%)
Reproductive Health - Women breastfeeding newborns (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that had a hysterectomy (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that had both ovaries removed (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever taken birth control pills (%)
Reproductive Health - Women taking birth control pills (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever used Depo-Provera or injectables (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever used female hormones (%)
Sexual Behavior - People 18+ that ever had sex (vaginal, anal, or oral) (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had vaginal sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever performed oral sex on a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had anal sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had any sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had vaginal sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever performed oral sex on a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had anal sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had any kind of sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first had sex
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female vaginal sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first performed oral sex on a woman (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of woman performed oral sex on in lifetime (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male anal sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first performed oral sex on a man (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male oral sex partners in lifetime (18+)
Sexual Behavior - People using protection when performing oral sex (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of times people have vaginal or anal sex a year
Sexual Behavior - People having sex without condom (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male vaginal sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Circumcised males 18+ (%)
Sleep Disorders - Average hours sleeping at night
Sleep Disorders - People that has trouble sleeping (%)
Smoking-Cigarette Use - People smoking cigarettes (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ having problems with smell (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ having problems with taste (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had wisdom teeth removed (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had tonsils teeth removed (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had a loss of consciousness because of a head injury (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had a broken nose or other serious injury to face or skull (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had two or more sinus infections (%)
Weight - Average height (inches)
Weight - Average weight (pounds)
Weight - Average BMI
Weight - People that are obese (%)
Weight - People that ever were obese (%)
Weight - People trying to lose weight (%)