Cincinnati - Dayton (Columbus, Springfield, Hamilton: how much, landscaping, shopping mall)

[abr7rmj]

Originally Posted by Ohiogirl81

That's what people do when they want to feel superior to other people.


All gone, or mostly so. GM closed its plant, NCR left for Atlanta and sold its property to UD, and even L'Auberge closed about a year ago and all its "stuff" went up for auction recently.

But the Pine Club is still there (bring cash). And Milano's. And Marion's. And Cassano's.

[TomJones123]

Originally Posted by Chemistry_Guy

The city of Dayton is just a lot smaller and more symmetrical than Cincinnati and not constrained by a river on the southern side, so the suburbs start much sooner. The sprawl really kicks in 15 miles from downtown in both metros. Cincinnati has plenty of compact suburbs, like Silverton, Deer Park, Madison Place, Cheviot, Blue Ash, Madeira, Kenwood and the list goes on. The distance from downtown Dayton to Kettering is similar to the distance between downtown and the geographical center of Cincinnati. Go 20 miles north of Dayton and the development is just as sprawly as anything in Cincy's exurbia.

Good points. Thanks.

I guess north of Dayton - Englewood, Vandalia, Troy, Tipp City would qualify.

[kjbrill]

Originally Posted by abr7rmj

I agree with this. Centerville, Bellbrook, Kettering, Miamisburg and Springboro are some of the nicest suburbs in the Cincinnati-Dayton region. Many of Cincinnati's suburbs - particularly the northern ones - are just a character-less mess.

You can call them a character-less mess. But guess what, West Chester Twp in Butler Co. alone has a population of around 65,000 so apparently a lot of people have decided it meets their needs just fine. And that is before you even get to the fast growing Liberty Twp to the north or to Mason to the east across the border in Warren Co. Just amazing how these character-less suburbs have attracted such a large number of people since there is obviously nothing to attract them here.

[TomJones123]

Originally Posted by kjbrill

You can call them a character-less mess. But guess what, West Chester Twp in Butler Co. alone has a population of around 65,000 so apparently a lot of people have decided it meets their needs just fine. And that is before you even get to the fast growing Liberty Twp to the north or to Mason to the east across the border in Warren Co. Just amazing how these character-less suburbs have attracted such a large number of people since there is obviously nothing to attract them here.

Easy Brill. No need to defend your turf here. Just someone's opinion, that they are entitled to.

[Briolat21]

Originally Posted by abr7rmj

I agree with this. Centerville, Bellbrook, Kettering, Miamisburg and Springboro are some of the nicest suburbs in the Cincinnati-Dayton region. Many of Cincinnati's suburbs - particularly the northern ones - are just a character-less mess.

I live in Lebanon, which I neither characterize as a true suburb of Cinci (it had its own identity first), nor as characterless. I'm not saying I find the character to be awesome (too quaint and antique-y emphasis for us), but it definitely has character.

The suburbs you've mentioned of Dayton are fine, but I don't really see anything that special about them (no different than WestChester/Mason as far as more recent growth suburbs goes)..

I've only seen parts of Belbrook, but it is fairly low population density with alot of sprawl. Kettering is nice, as an older suburb (many houses look like ranches from before the '70s - maybe more like the '50s), Springboro is way out and like Lebanon basically had its own original downtown area, Miamisburg is basically the Mall and surrounding areas.

Centerville I do like, but have friends who grew up in the area who deride it as Pretensious and "new Money"..

I think Oakwood is beautiful, but then again Hyde Park is also lovely.


I don't think either city is particularly better than the other in this regard, just that due to the relative flatness, Dayton seems (on a whole) a little more compact in its metro, than Cinci does.

[TomJones123]

Originally Posted by Briolat21

Dayton seems (on a whole) a little more compact in its metro, than Cinci does.

I agree with this more so since Clark County was dropped from Dayton's metro area a few years ago.

I suspect a lot of towns like Mason had more character before commuter sprawl encroached. And I'm not calling Mason characterless across the board, but having worked there a little and getting a feel for the area, the old downtown Mason is worlds from the new developments there in terms of character.

[abr7rmj]

Originally Posted by Briolat21

I live in Lebanon, which I neither characterize as a true suburb of Cinci (it had its own identity first), nor as characterless. I'm not saying I find the character to be awesome (too quaint and antique-y emphasis for us), but it definitely has character.

The suburbs you've mentioned of Dayton are fine, but I don't really see anything that special about them (no different than WestChester/Mason as far as more recent growth suburbs goes)..

I've only seen parts of Belbrook, but it is fairly low population density with alot of sprawl. Kettering is nice, as an older suburb (many houses look like ranches from before the '70s - maybe more like the '50s), Springboro is way out and like Lebanon basically had its own original downtown area, Miamisburg is basically the Mall and surrounding areas.

Centerville I do like, but have friends who grew up in the area who deride it as Pretensious and "new Money"..

I think Oakwood is beautiful, but then again Hyde Park is also lovely.


I don't think either city is particularly better than the other in this regard, just that due to the relative flatness, Dayton seems (on a whole) a little more compact in its metro, than Cinci does.

Lebanon is as charming as it gets - I love the downtown area and the surrounding landscape. I forgot to mention it earlier.

Don't assume Miamisburg is just the mall area. It has a beautiful downtown area set against the river, with century-old brownstones, quaint restaurants and pubs and a nice town center. Of course, a lot of people don't know it's there because they think of Miamisburg as a bunch of chain stores when actually that's Miami Township. Check it out next time you're there. Downtown Miamisburg is several miles west of the 75.

Oakwood is gorgeous; Hyde Park isn't a suburb it's part of the city.

Centerville is my favorite (I'm biased of course). It retains its historic stone buildings, some dating to the late 1700s, in the preservation district. It has a priceless parks district with many old-growth forest parks. It's just minutes from Lebanon, Waynesville, Springboro and the quaint areas to the south while still being close enough to the amenities of the Dayton Mall area, the Greene, etc. It has a great school system that excels in academics and athletics. And C'ville has the comfortable gathering spots (Graeter's, MacDiggers, Flavors, O'Leary's, Beefs, etc.). If I had to live in an outer suburb again, I wouldn't think twice in picking Centerville. Like your view of Lebanon as not being a true suburb, I get a similar vibe from Centerville. It has its own history pre-dating Dayton and thrived for decades as little more than a stage stop between Cincinnati and Dayton.

Mason has its nice downtown area, but the Fields Ertel/MM Road debacle negates its positives for me. West Chester is the worst, in my opinion. It doesn't retain any charm of the other places mentioned. It's sprawled new plastic construction and chain heaven. No thanks. I'd live in Mason before West Chester.

[Dayton Sux]

Actually Dayton suburbia extends more along a north-south axis. There is an entire "empty quater" west of the city, and Greene County is only recently developing a big way.

I don't really want to put-down Cincy suburbia. The older towns are really neat (thlinking Wyoming and Norwood and Glendale) as well as the older parts of the new suburbs (like Mason or Sharonville). And there are those two model communities on how to 'do suburbia' (at least in terms of site planning and greenspace): Greenhills and Mariemont

It's just the stuff in-between (cue mental image of, say, Colerain Rd by that shopping mall, SR 4 to Hamilton, Red Bank Highway, that road north of Sharonville into Westchester, etc) that is so visually chaotic and scruffy.

I think its because Cincy is so big. Dayton has stretches like that to on certain highways (north Dixie Drive would be the best worst example, and parts of Salem Ave), but since its a smaller city with smaller suburbs these stretches go by fast.

I also think the civil engineerrs doing traffic planning are pretty agressive in doing access control and limiting curb cuts (in fact I was told this by a guy working planning for that OKI regional planning agency) and sign controls and such, so the way things where developed starting in the 1970s and maybe even in the late 1960s (with the advent of the PUD concept) means there was less laissez faire and more planning and control on how things were built-out....in suburbia. Its still suburbia, but maybe more thought-out....

[Briolat21]

I like Centerville too.

Sorry, I forget that HP isn't an actual suburb (silly Cinci with all the neighborhoodiness) - so you're right.

So Oakwood would be more Mariemont in that case.

I didn't know about Miamisburg downtown area, I'll look for it when I'm back in that area with time on my hands (admittedly, not often).

WestChester (old WestChester) has a small original city center (its very small), just as there is old Mason. Of course, like Miamisburg, what people think of is all the new sprawling development (stores/big box/malls) around that original center.

Though WestChester is quite small, even compared to Old Mason.

Techincally the Field'sErtl/MM exchange is Deerfield Twp. I used to kind of blow that difference off, but I eventually have realized its a real difference. Mason is really much less sprawl-y than one would think, it is really DeerField Twp that is the major sprawl that people typically seem to associate with Mason.

[unusualfire]

The state knows the 2 are merging. It was one reason I-75 was widened to 8 lanes between the two metro's. They know development will accelerate between the two.