Cincinnati - Dayton (Akron, Kent, Miamisburg: fit in, taxes, club)

[immersedincincy]

Originally Posted by kjbrill

I do think Cincinnati and Dayton will combine, but I don't think it will be that fast. Trying to 'Push' them together to me has no advantage. Let the natural business forces drive it that way. Artificial forces rarely turn out the way you plan.

So it is part of your plan!!!

[kjbrill]

Originally Posted by immersedincincy

So it is part of your plan!!!

You got it! Let the natural business forces dictate how it goes. External artificial forces are usually a disaster.

[CarpathianPeasant]

Originally Posted by kjbrill

Yes, you are right, it is difficult to teach an old dog new tricks because we have seen too many come and go by the wayside. It is also difficult to teach young whippersnappers practicality because they are so inclinded to just go and jump off the cliff based on some trumped up report. WPAFB is an asset to the Dayton area. But it is a military asset, not a Dayton asset. Dayton does not control what goes on there, the military does. In the overall planning of the Cin-Day area, I cannot include WPAFB at all. It is nice to have it here, but it could be gone tomorrow in a heartbeat, say to Texas.

Some barking from another old dog.

The national aviation heritage area is north from the Hamilton county line. In other words, much of the "I-75 corridor."

That was not the work of Cincinnati. And, for that matter neither was the P&G dog food or the city manager form of government.

　
And, the Congressional representative represents the people of the City of Dayton -- it's that stuff 'way north of Kettering. The dog food was especially 'way north of notable south suburbs, namely from Vandalia, which is where the airport is.

There are some very smart people in Cincinnati, and I'm sure they acknowledge the City of Dayton as having some value.

Arf. Arf.

[kjbrill]

Originally Posted by CarpathianPeasant

Some barking from another old dog.

The national aviation heritage area is north from the Hamilton county line. In other words, much of the "I-75 corridor."

That was not the work of Cincinnati. And, for that matter neither was the P&G dog food or the city manager form of government.

　
And, the Congressional representative represents the people of the City of Dayton -- it's that stuff 'way north of Kettering. The dog food was especially 'way north of notable south suburbs, namely from Vandalia, which is where the airport is.

There are some very smart people in Cincinnati, and I'm sure they acknowledge the City of Dayton as having some value.

Arf. Arf.

Wow, Daytonians are sure sensitive when any mention is made of Dayton, critical or not.

It is obvious the biggest blow to Dayton was NCR's exodus to Atlanta. A very large corporate image with a huge history, NCR was more than just the loss of a company. I suspect more total jobs have been lost in Dayton in the automotive industry than NCR, but NCR still stands out as the depressing one.

I don't see where anyone in Cincinnati is saying Dayton does not have value. It just doesn't have to be lumped into a common metro at this time. Cincinnati can claim a larger total population base. But what can Dayton claim, we were swallowed up by Cincinnati. What is the gain to Dayton?

BTW, that dog food outfit was recently sold by P&G to Mars (yes the candy people). So Daytonians can now wonder how Mars is going to manage it.

[hensleya1]

Anecdotally I am hearing of an increasing number of people, especially couples, where one half works in Cincinnati and the other half in Dayton, and there's nothing they could do about it, because the economy still sucks. So their solution was to live in between - Monroe, Franklin, etc.

Just merge the two areas and be done with it. 3 million sounds a lot better than 2 and 1 million, respectively, on the tourist brochures. And it'll help bring more business to the area.

[SWOH]

Originally Posted by kjbrill

Wow, Daytonians are sure sensitive when any mention is made of Dayton, critical or not.

It is obvious the biggest blow to Dayton was NCR's exodus to Atlanta. A very large corporate image with a huge history, NCR was more than just the loss of a company. I suspect more total jobs have been lost in Dayton in the automotive industry than NCR, but NCR still stands out as the depressing one.

I don't see where anyone in Cincinnati is saying Dayton does not have value. It just doesn't have to be lumped into a common metro at this time. Cincinnati can claim a larger total population base. But what can Dayton claim, we were swallowed up by Cincinnati. What is the gain to Dayton?

BTW, that dog food outfit was recently sold by P&G to Mars (yes the candy people). So Daytonians can now wonder how Mars is going to manage it.

I may be speaking for myself as a Daytonian, but we are sensitive because we are used to getting attacked. From Louis CK to SNL and Forbes, a lot of people who know nothing about Dayton like to think we are an awful place. I know that Dayton can be amazing if one makes even a little bit of an effort to experience what it has to offer, so yes blind criticism irks me.

To put it in perspective, NCR was about 1400 jobs lost. To contrast, all of the closed Delphi operations added up to over 10,000 jobs lost. That doesn't even include GM Moraine's 3,000 workers or any of their suppliers in the area who had to close up shop too.


But at this point I still see a number of differences in character between what I would define as the four separate areas of the region:
1. NKY (excluding Covington / Newport / Bellevue)
2. Cincinnati (includes Covington, Newport, and Bellevue)
3. Daytonnati (all the stuff between 275 and 675, roughly speaking)
4. Dayton (I'd argue it includes Tipp City and Troy, excludes Springfield)


Each of these four areas have characteristics which are decidedly different than the other three, and I think their conglomeration gives our region a unique flavor which cannot be replicated anywhere else. For instance, horse racing is a lot bigger deal in NKY than Dayton, Cincinnati has an entirely different topography than Daytonnati, each area has a number of unique regional foods / customs / eateries that is almost exclusive to the secton, etc.

And as a Daytonian, I'm just fine with the super-region so long as it is dubbed Daytonnati haha

[motorman]

Originally Posted by hensleya1

Anecdotally I am hearing of an increasing number of people, especially couples, where one half works in Cincinnati and the other half in Dayton, and there's nothing they could do about it, because the economy still sucks. So their solution was to live in between - Monroe, Franklin, etc.

Just merge the two areas and be done with it. 3 million sounds a lot better than 2 or I million, respectively, on the tourist brochures. And it'll help bring more business to the area.

My sentiments exactly, hensleya1. This long-anticipated CIN-DAY merger/MSA will benefit everyone concerned, namely because it's an accurate, honest representation of how our two cities have grown together. And, also important: neither of our cities sacrifices anything to be a part of this, their new combined MSA--all told, probably well over 3.2 million people. Both Cincinnati and Dayton can remain "who they are," but, in turn, also gain a valuable and worthy neighbor.

[Ohiogirl81]

Originally Posted by OHKID

From Louis CK to SNL and Forbes, a lot of people who know nothing about Dayton like to think we are an awful place. I know that Dayton can be amazing if one makes even a little bit of an effort to experience what it has to offer, so yes blind criticism irks me.

Me, too; especially since most of the criticism you're talking about comes from sheer ignorance.

But at this point I still see a number of differences in character between what I would define as the four separate areas of the region:
1. NKY (excluding Covington / Newport / Bellevue)
2. Cincinnati (includes Covington, Newport, and Bellevue)
3. Daytonnati (all the stuff between 275 and 675, roughly speaking)
4. Dayton (I'd argue it includes Tipp City and Troy, excludes Springfield)


Each of these four areas have characteristics which are decidedly different than the other three

Having lived in 2, 3, and 4, I compliment you on your analysis and agree with you.

[motorman]

^ In so many ways, OHKID, you've summarized much about CIN-DAY (or, more specifically, the "CIN-DAY corridor, now designated the "AERO-SPACE corridor" by the U.S, Commerce Dept.) That is, as you mentioned, one region that extends from below Walton, Ky. up past Tipp City, Oh. (Like it or not, even in all our petty distinctions, we are, more than ever, one entity.)

[kjbrill]

OK, talk about sheer ignorance. But blind optimism is not going to make it happen either. I believe there has to be something called a vested interest, somebody has to own something, make something, sell something, to cause a change in economic environment. When that comes these changes will occur. Until then it is just talk. That's not taking anything away from Dayton or Cincinnati. It is just simple economics.

I just wish NCR was still in Dayton. They brought a lot of class to the place. The golf courses they built rivaled Firestone in Akron, top class.

Of course I guess you have to realize Firestone is really no more, bought out by Bridgestone of Japan (wonder where they got that name from).