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Location: Austin, TX/Chicago, IL/Houston, TX/Washington, DC
10,138 posts, read 16,035,535 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LINative
Exactly.
To answer your OP, I think Baltimore has it a little rougher than Phildelphia. This is because of the different nature of their larger neighbors: Washington DC and New York City.
The New York City area is primarily a white collar areas with private jobs like banking, Wall Street etc. There is no reason that the Philadelphia area cannot get some of the growth from that. Ironically, a growing Philadelphia area might also return the favor and further nuture the New York area as well.
On the other hand, the Washington DC area is primarily fueled by FEDERAL government jobs. Unless you think that Baltimore is going to be able to attract the Pentagon or the Congress to set up shop in Baltimore, you can see the problem.
The way I have always imagined their CSA relationship is as so.
The success of Baltimore in anything is the success and accomplishment for Baltimore & Washington DC.
The success for Washington DC in anything is it's success and accomplishment only, not shared with Baltimore.
That is nearly identical to the relationship Oakland & San Jose have with San Francisco.
Philadelphia is more of a standalone city with it's own bubble, even though that bubble has restrictive boundaries limiting it's influential horizon by a bit. But what it accomplishes it gets the recognition for solely by itself.
The way I have always imagined their CSA relationship is as so.
The success of Baltimore in anything is the success and accomplishment for Baltimore & Washington DC.
The success for Washington DC in anything is it's success and accomplishment only, not shared with Baltimore.
That is nearly identical to the relationship Oakland & San Jose have with San Francisco.
Philadelphia is more of a standalone city with it's own bubble, even though that bubble has restrictive boundaries limiting it's influential horizon by a bit. But what it accomplishes it gets the recognition for solely by itself.
What people dont understand is that Baltimore and Washington are to totally separate cities. Baltimore is to DC what Philly is to NYC. It is not a SF/oakland, minneapolis/st paul or a Dallas/ Ft Worth situation.
Lol, no I am not talking about bragging rights on City-Data. That is not important at all.
I am talking about the method most people do commute and where they live. Work in New York City and live in a place like 14 miles from downtown Philadelphia, those are the people that I was talking about as far as impact goes.
I don't have any of the GDP measurements, but I am positive that it drains Philadelphia of at least 70 billion USD. Which is more of a use for a competitive edge on rankings and studies for global cities, Philadelphia gets a disadvantage on that when compared to say rival Boston.
That's a good point. However, you have to wonder, how much GDP does Philly gain from having NYC there? GDP that you can't track. There is a great amount of allure to companies that want to be headquartered (even on a regional level) that can escape the expenses of building or renting in NYC. So, they make an internal company decision to locate themselves in Philly, which is so very close to NYC, much cheaper, and closer to DC.
By the way, I'm interested in the 70 billion number you mentioned. I know you don't normally quote random numbers (like some do), but I don't know where you're finding that number.
This - living here there is no barrier and all the amenitities are accesable
In the real world i agree it is a huge benefit. Access to everything, jobs, culture, events, amenties etc...
Yeah, it's strange that a place like Philly could be nested in such a great location. However, it doesn't look like it on paper because the way the cities and metros are dissected makes it look less impressive. In reality, Philly is in one of those places where it will never fall into irrelevancy. That's besides the great planning that went into creating the foundation of the city, which so many cities today lack.
Location: Austin, TX/Chicago, IL/Houston, TX/Washington, DC
10,138 posts, read 16,035,535 times
Reputation: 4047
Quote:
Originally Posted by AJNEOA
By the way, I'm interested in the 70 billion number you mentioned. I know you don't normally quote random numbers (like some do), but I don't know where you're finding that number.
I got it from the other Philly posters to be honest, I normally don't give people the edge of having validated information until they can prove it, but I see it in nearly every thread nowadays to the point where it makes me wonder 45-70 billion in GDP from the counties that could/should belong in Philadelphia MSA seems reasonable as they say it's nearly 1 million people that needs to be added into the MSA.
Honestly, I have never checked it, but I am going with some of their statistics and numbering, some of them are credible posters who have proven their point in the past. So I gave it the benefit of the doubt, although I myself would like to see the exact numbering as well.
I have heard that argument so much that it is possibly memorized now, lol. I think I can name all the counties around Philadelphia now more than I can in my own metro. Atlantic County, Mercer County, etc...
I got it from the other Philly posters to be honest, I normally don't give people the edge of having validated information until they can prove it, but I see it in nearly every thread nowadays to the point where it makes me wonder 45-70 billion in GDP from the counties that could/should belong in Philadelphia MSA seems reasonable as they say it's nearly 1 million people that needs to be added into the MSA.
Honestly, I have never checked it, but I am going with some of their statistics and numbering, some of them are credible posters who have proven their point in the past. So I gave it the benefit of the doubt, although I myself would like to see the exact numbering as well.
I have heard that argument so much that it is possible memorized now, lol. I think I can name all the counties around Philadelphia now more than I can in my own metro. Atlantic County, Mercer County, etc...
That makes sense. If anyone has a source for that number, I would also like to see it.
That's a good point. However, you have to wonder, how much GDP does Philly gain from having NYC there? GDP that you can't track. There is a great amount of allure to companies that want to be headquartered (even on a regional level) that can escape the expenses of building or renting in NYC. So, they make an internal company decision to locate themselves in Philly, which is so very close to NYC, much cheaper, and closer to DC.
By the way, I'm interested in the 70 billion number you mentioned. I know you don't normally quote random numbers (like some do), but I don't know where you're finding that number.
I imagine the Mercer area, I believe is ~50 Bill and you could make arguments for others, AC etc which would actually get you above the 70, but really at some level it is just semantics. People commute into Mercer from Bucks and Burlington in under 20 minutes so the reality is really not obtrusive at all.
Also companies like JNJ have their headquarters just over the seperating MSA line yet have more jobs in the Philly metro than in the NY just as one example. Or a companies like BMS or NovoNordisk or Sanofi-Aventis etc. right on the border, basically both metros benefit...
To the headquarter thing, i believe Philly overindexes in GMP vs GDP which as a gross simplification would suggest the economic output is greater than the headquartered companies in terms of production and wealth creation back to the metro, which kind of makes sense
I just looked up some BEA data 9Think was 2005 though) - Trenton is 26, AC is 14 - but there are other components (that was just cities, believe that Hightsown/Plainsboro doubles the Trenton number, huge tech and pharma belt. I know I added up some older data prior that was in that 60-70 range in total but this nember depends on how liberal etc you are with the areas
I put that Philly has it slightly worse because its overshadowed by both Nyc and DC.....Baltimore is only overshadowed by DC.....
I mean (And i know Philly homers are going have a problem with this) but Nyc metro is so slowly creeping to Philly territory more people in Bucks now commute to nyc than they do to Philly....bus services are making a killing on people who live in Philly and commute to nyc....Greyhound Bolt Megabus Chinatown are seeing no shortage of people Transversing the 2 cities on a daily basis...and it has to do with the lower COL in Philly and its accessibility to NYC
I put that Philly has it slightly worse because its overshadowed by both Nyc and DC.....Baltimore is only overshadowed by DC.....
I mean (And i know Philly homers are going have a problem with this) but Nyc metro is so slowly creeping to Philly territory more people in Bucks now commute to nyc than they do to Philly....bus services are making a killing on people who live in Philly and commute to nyc....Greyhound Bolt Megabus Chinatown are seeing no shortage of people Transversing the 2 cities on a daily basis...and it has to do with the lower COL in Philly and its accessibility to NYC
You are such a Philly hater. Shut up. Philadelphia is overshadowed by NYC but it STILL manages to have an identity of its own. Cant say the same for bmore.
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