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It's not a straightforward selection. If the NYC Subway had no lines on the West Side, did not extend south of 59th Street, and missed Brooklyn completely before heading out to Queens, I would not consider its system better simply because it had higher ridership numbers. From a transit standpoint alone, I would rather live in DC or Boston whose systems cover a greater share of the city.
Buses are good for filling in gaps missed by heavy rail. They are in no way a substitute for heavy rail. It would be hell riding a bus from Flatbush to the Bronx. So I know it would be hell riding from one distant part of LA to another on a bus.
Boston's system actually does miss a great deal of the city.
The gaps are easy to fill in in Boston because the city is compact. It's only 46 sq. miles and most of the things you would ever need or want to do are within those 46 sq. miles. It's not reasonable, on the other hand, to try to fill in 400+ sq. miles with bus service alone.
Yes. If you combine both heavy and light rail systems (which are apples and oranges, but whatevs), Boston has 63 miles of track compared to LA's 78. So if you think the T is missing a lot of territory, then LA's system is really missing the mark.
Yes, the Westside is definitely the big missing link. I've taken that bus (704) before to get to Santa Monica - never again, just too long of a bus ride. I think if there was a quick way for me to get to Wilshire it would be significantly faster to take the Wilshire Rapid Bus because SM Blvd has got to be one of the most congested surface roads I have ever seen, even in New York (purely conjecture, I have no idea if statistically it is as congested). It is so lame the West Hollywood portion of the Purple Line extension was nixed. Now we have to wait for a LRT subway (that isn't even one of the Measure R projects) through that area to connect with the future Crenshaw line. It will probably be the next thing they build after Measure R projects are complete, along with a line through Glendale to the Burbank Airport.
Luckily, rush-hour bus-only lanes are coming in the next year to alleviate those that commute through the Westside.
Of course, like Bajan said buses cannot do the job HRT is supposed to do, and the Purple Line Extension will really fix the Central LA to Westside travel-time issue.
When completed the Purple Line / Red Line is expected to have a ridership of 290k and get around 10k riders per mile - LA has routinely exceeded ridership projections on all lines except for the Gold Line through the San Gabriel Valley (which is being extended almost exclusively for political purposes and because it is very cheap).
Last edited by munchitup; 08-07-2012 at 03:42 PM..
Another thing to note, since this is a work-related thread, is that a lot of the San Fernando Valley is served by the Metrolink commuter rail. It's definitely not super-useful for recreational purposes (though I've had a friend ride in from Santa Clarita to Hollywood on a Saturday) but within the regular workday it is very useful. Most lines run through the weekend (there is definitely one that does not though, can't remember off the top of my head).
There is a stop at Atwater Village / Glendale (Antelope Valley Line, Ventura Line), there are two stops at the Burbank Airport (Antelope Valley Line, Ventura Line), a stop in Van Nuys (Ventura), a stop in Northridge (Ventura), a stop in Chatsworth (Ventura), a stop in Sun Valley (AV), and a stop in Sylmar / San Fernando (AV).
Six of the eight stops are within Los Angeles city limits, excluding the Burbank stop and the Sylmar / San Fernando stop (the Glendale stop is technically in LA city limits, actually directly on the border). And even those are pretty much completely ingrained in the LA fabric.
When you start to peel back the layers, you realize Los Angeles has much better transit coverage than many realize (this goes for the residents as well!).
Since graduating high school, even in a small college town, and on to bigger cities, and now in my 30s I've never lived more than 8 miles from where I worked whether by car or by train/walk and wouldn't want to except once and I absolutely hated it where I had to drive 30-45 minutes both ways depending on traffic and ended up moving. I'd actually rather be closer, within 3-4 miles, and definitely not in a car, preferably I'd rather not ride a bus. Many people I know in Chicago, SF or NY just walk to work, I used to in Chicago living 8 blocks from work as well and rarely even used the subway system during the weekdays b/c I could walk to everything I needed and still be overwhelmed, very easy to do. Of course like many, I'm not rich or privileged, I welcomely give up space or other things like expensive cell phone plans, high cable tv, to live in a walkable city.
Buses are generally slow, and compete with traffic, compared to the numerous rail options. I try to avoid them unless absolutely necessary and are generally only useful unless you are in a prime express bus route that happens to go by where you work, even in Chicago. In 4-5 years living in Chicago I've probably taken the bus only a dozen times tops, but the subway probably a thousand or more times. So when you guys in LA talk about these crazy long distances, it seems absurd from mine and I'm sure others perspectives.
Since graduating high school, even in a small college town, and on to bigger cities, and now in my 30s I've never lived more than 8 miles from where I worked whether by car or by train/walk and wouldn't want to except once and I absolutely hated it where I had to drive 30-45 minutes both ways depending on traffic and ended up moving. I'd actually rather be closer, within 3-4 miles, and definitely not in a car, preferably I'd rather not ride a bus. Many people I know in Chicago, SF or NY just walk to work, I used to in Chicago living 8 blocks from work as well and rarely even used the subway system during the weekdays b/c I could walk to everything I needed and still be overwhelmed, very easy to do. So when you guys in LA talk about these crazy long distances, it seems absurd from mine and I'm sure others perspectives. Buses are generally slow, and compete with traffic, compared to the numerous rail options. I try to avoid them unless absolutely necessary and are generally only useful unless you are in a prime express bus route that happens to go by where you work, even in Chicago. In 4-5 years living in Chicago I've probably taken the bus only a dozen times tops, but the subway probably a thousand or more times.
Interesting perspective. I used to commute about an hour from Allston-Brighton to the Boston waterfront via Green Line, Red Line, Silver Line. Got a lot of reading done
One thing to put into perspective is LA residents have one of the shortest commutes in the nation (this is for any mode - driving, subway, bus). That is because the rule of thumb is you live where you work. I would imagine in the other mega-city NYC, that is a similar rule, even if you are commuting by subway vs. driving. I have no commute, as I work from home. My wife works in Calabasas (very far from Hollywood, but as much of a reverse commute as you get in LA) - her commute is about 30-45 min at the most.
Another thing to keep in mind is LA buses are very fast and frequent. The Rapid Bus is one of the most unique systems in the US (maybe NYC has something? Nei?) and provides surprisingly fast bus service. the Human Transit blog loves them, though thinks they have been a little diluted with expansion. There is a running Sticky thread on the LA forum of pictures, and someone pointed out that in nearly every street-shot, there is at least one bus in the picture. Sort of speaks to how ubiquitous the buses are in LA.
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