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first off no one said you all culture or anything wasn't different. FYI going on & on for pages on this thread about African American vs West Indians IS dividing. "Oh NYC can't be included because its too many West Indians" "West Indians are more snooty..." blah blah blah. Sounds so ridiculous. And actually the term "african american" came from fellow West Indian Marcus Garvey and was originially meant to mean ANY person of AFRICAN descent in the "new world", yes including west indians. The term came about from the Pan Africa movement. Hence why you check African American/black on the census.
Quote:
Originally Posted by eek
oh and i agree that the thread should be about black culture in general because west indians are too tied to black american history to separate from african american history in the u.s.
enough of the division. and it shouldn't become a north vs south thread either because without the south many of us wouldn't be in the north at all (myself included). our history is tied together. there isn't one without the other IMO.
This is such a red herring. What does division have to do with it? Clearly, the thread is titled "Cities with richest African American history and culture." African American history and culture is not the same as Caribbean American history and culture. Apparently, I do need to go on and on and on and state this multiple times in this thread until you have grasped this very basic distinction. If the two were the same, we would not exclude discussions of "African Americans" from threads regarding Caribbean culture on C-D. Hence, we get threads like this.
How would I be received if I started posting facts about Mississippi's black population in this thread?
And the term "African American" is generally understood to be more specific than "Black," although the terms are obviously used interchangeably. A Nigerian immigrant (let's call him Anayo Nwachuwku) and a man whose whole entire family was born and raised stateside (let's call him LeDarrell Jenkins) are both black. It is debatable whether we'd call them both "African Americans," however, since only one of them is a descendant of American slaves.
At any rate, my basic point was that African American culture was not as strong in NYC because many of the descendants of slaves are fleeing the city and being replaced by immigrants. That is not the same as saying that the city has no African American culture at all, so please quit with the strawman arguments. Philadelphia indeed has a deeper African American culture because a higher percentage of its black population is American-born and the descendants of American slaves.
@ eek - If the two were understood to be one in the same in NYC, then why are there two separate parades for the two cultures?
we have a parade for everything in nyc. no one is excluded.
i'm not going to go on about this with you, i have as well as others, showed you examples of african americans and west indians throughout history that have contributed to african american culture in the u.s.
it is what it is. the facts support us. the only red herring in the thread is you. stop trying to divide.
we have a parade for everything in nyc. no one is excluded.
i'm not going to go on about this with you, i have as well as others, shown you examples of african americans and west indians throughout history that have contributed to african american culture in the u.s.
it is what it is. the facts support us.
LOL. That's a cop out and you know it. What facts would you be referring to, good sir?
This is just out of curiousity more than anything else, but you tend to hear that Boston is the most Irish city in America and all the Irish Catholic culture there. The same with Miami and Cubans, Mormons in Utah, Mexicans in Los Angeles and Italians in New York City.
So which major US city do you think has the most African American history and culture. Basically when you think of African American culture and history, which city would come to mind first.
I think yall are missing the question.....
Which city comes to mind first for YOU?
For me its Atlanta, for others it could be Detroit, NYC, etc.. You cant really debate someone's opinion. And you cant get all butt hurt if someone disagrees with you or doesnt mention your city.
1. there's a puerto rican day parade as well as a dominican day parade in ny. both countries are a part of the west indies. using your logic, neither country is a part of the west indies because they have separate parades from the west indian day parade.
2. using that logic, an african american cannot be a puerto rican, west indian or dominican because there is an african american parade.
3. african american means a decendant from africa. its not necessarily exclusive to you know...ppl who have parents, grandparents, etc. from africa. this means that anybody of african descent in this country can be considered an african american.
do you understand the above? or do you not want to understand that and would you rather avoid that?
has anybody here in this thread thats a black american been to africa? know anybody in their family from africa??
probably not. but we would be considered african american, correct? because somebody came from africa somewhere down the line, obviously.
same for a lot of west indians. yes, somebody came from the west indies but somebody also came from africa.
moving along, because i think everybody understands that except you, bajanyankee, to answer your other questions:
i'm not trying to weasel out anything. the only weasel in the thread is YOU. you're trying to weasel out of reason.i for one am done trying to reason with a person that is unreasonable. you choose to be ignorant and thats fine.
west indians can do what they want as far as the census. some ppl think puerto rican (for example) is a race but that doesn't make it so, right? perhaps some west indians feel the need to be recognized for something other than skin color.
perhaps they don't wish to be lumped in in the same category as NEGRO. i purposely didn't complete the census because i don't agree with negro being on the form, but thats just me.
i do not think that some west indians who wish to have their own designation on the form are representative of ALL west indians in the u.s. just like i don't think that the few elderly black ppl that identify with the word NEGRO are representative of the entire black race in the u.s.
if the u.s. loses all of its black population, black history never happend in the u.s.!
Since you won't respond to my question, I'll respond to yours. If the U.S. lost its entire black population, it would lose its black culture, but not its history. You do know that West Harlem used to be predominatly Jewish, right? Nobody thinks of Harlem as a mecca of Jewish culture, though. If people start to leave a place, then yes, it does lose some of that culture because its the people that create the culture after all.
Oddly enough, Miami is not appearing on anyone's list with any regularity. I think I saw it once. For the most part, we get the usual suspects: Atlanta, Detroit, Chicago, Philly, DC, Birmingham, Oakland, etc. Why is that, eek?
1. there's a puerto rican day parade as well as a dominican day parade in ny. both countries are a part of the west indies. using your logic, neither country is a part of the west indies because they have separate parades from the west indian day parade.
Puerto Ricans and Dominicans have a separate parade because they are not West Indians. PR and the DR are in the Caribbean, but not the West Indies. Do you understand the difference?
"African American" is not a term subject to precise definition, but most understand that it means people who are the descendants of American slaves, not immigrants. Hence the two different parades in NYC: one in Harlem, the other in Brooklyn.
i'm familiar with the gentrification going on in the city that i live in. i'm also aware that harlem isn't the end all be all of black culture in nyc.
tell me how you don't even know about the culture that you're trying to divide right now. you don't even know about your own culture and you're trying to talk to us about this topic? get outta here.
LOL @ pr and dr not being a part of the west indies. get outta here.
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