Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Happy Mother`s Day to all Moms!
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > General U.S. > City vs. City
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
View Poll Results: Which city is better?
Minneapolis, MN 254 70.56%
Kansas City, MO 106 29.44%
Voters: 360. You may not vote on this poll

Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 10-04-2010, 09:45 PM
 
Location: Cleveland bound with MPLS in the rear-view
5,509 posts, read 11,871,642 times
Reputation: 2501

Advertisements

How about "Kansas City is the Minneapolis/St. Paul of the Great Plains"? We're more upper-midwestern or Northern/Great Lakes, but have similar regional relationships.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 10-04-2010, 10:31 PM
 
Location: Tucson/Nogales
23,212 posts, read 29,026,930 times
Reputation: 32603
I lived in isolated Minneapolis for 21 years, and when I couldn't afford to escape it,
my source of fun would come from going to any number of these anti-development, anti-density Fargo-minded neighborhood groups (Nimby's everywhere in this city) and raising hell!

One group doesn't want a Mexican restaurant in their Phillips neighborhood (would draw too much traffic and perhaps an undesirable clientele), one group
is opposed to construction of any building over 3 stories around Lake Calhoun or Lake of the Isles, one group wants to put a moratorium on furthur construction of any mid or high rise building along the Mississippi river,
one group doesn't want any new buildings downtown to exceed the height of the one that's currently the tallest (one rabid Nimby even wanted the developers to shave off 10 floors of every office building downtown to give it a more Fargo-like flavor ).

Cedar Riverside. They even have their own "mayor" over there who has the power to accept or reject any building proposal. Any developer who proposes a building higher than 6 stories is asked: What kind of drugs are you on!!!

Loring Park, which could be the Central Park of Minneapolis. Before any new high rise gets approved there, every single resident of Summit House must agree to it, that it's not going to impede their views of the downtown core.

The Wedge/Uptown Nimby's, they're the worst! If I had my way, I'd sentence each and every one of them to prison with no chance of parole!

If you think San FranNimby has control freaks when it comes to new development in their city, you ain't been to Nimby-apolis!

And how's Kansas City for Nimby's? Only the most masochistic developer would propose to build anything there?

Last edited by tijlover; 10-04-2010 at 10:32 PM.. Reason: Add word
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-04-2010, 10:44 PM
 
Location: Southern Minnesota
5,984 posts, read 13,409,881 times
Reputation: 3371
Yes, because Las Vegas is such a progressive, dense, urban city.

What is with you and Fargo? Minneapolis isn't like Fargo. Anyway, what is wrong with Fargo?! It's a great city. I'd like to see Mpls. become more like Fargo.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-05-2010, 08:43 AM
 
10,624 posts, read 26,728,110 times
Reputation: 6776
tijlover, I can understand your point, and have spent many an hour railing against the Uptown NIMBYs myself; I will say, though, that after spending a lot of time reading old Wedge newspapers from the 1970s I can see where some of the older NIMBYs are coming from, or at least why they are conditioned to fear change; that was the era when a lot of really nice older houses were torn down in the name of progress, and were replaced with all those sprawling apartment buildings that you find dotted amidst the older homes and apartment buildings. Most aren't particularly dense (being only three stories tall or so), are ugly, and take up a lot of room. I'd protest having more of those in the neighborhood, too. I suppose people who cut their political teeth protesting that sort of ugly and suburban-esque development have a knee-jerk reaction to all new developments, although I think today's options (like the earlier incarnation of the proposed Mosaic project on Lagoon) will go a long way to returning the "character" of the neighborhood, not taking away from it. Still, there's just too many people who don't like living in a city neighborhood, and one really has to ask: if you don't like it, why not move to one of the many, many other Minneapolis neighborhoods that DOESN'T have parking problems or traffic? Minneapolis is indeed a city of NIMBYs, and I think the neighborhood and NRP structure gave them a greater voice (or at least validates the impression that a small but vocal group of people speaks for the neighborhoods as a whole) than they have in other cities with less formalized neighborhood groups.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-05-2010, 12:43 PM
 
398 posts, read 993,533 times
Reputation: 391
In 1981, Joel Garreau wrote a book called The Nine Nations of North America. He divided the United States into nine regions based on cultural and economic ties. He put all of Minnesota, Kansas, Nebraska, Iowa, North Dakota, South Dakota, along with portions of Wisconsin, Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, Missouri, Oklahoma, Texas, New Mexico, Colorado, Wyoming, and Montana in the region he called The Breadbasket. This is a map of the nine regions from his book:



What I think is most interesting is that he put the capital of The Breadbasket in Kansas City! Not Minneapolis.

This is the portion from his book where he writes about The Breadbasket and why he placed the capital in Kansas City rather than Minneapolis:

Quote:
THE BREADBASKET

That brings me to the Breadbasket. What characterizes the Breadbasket is that it is the nation that works best in many ways. It is based on an enviable renewable economy, the most fecund agriculture that the world has ever seen. And since, of course, most people in the Breadbasket are not farmers, it is good for the Breadbasket that its industry is complementary. We’re talking about firms like John Deere, Caterpillar, Cargill. This is an integrated, stable economy and it is not likely to change any time soon. The other feature of the Breadbasket is that it is the ratifier of social change in this continent. I think Nixon was right about one thing; it is tremendously important whether ideas play in Peoria. Things like opposition to the Vietnam War or being in favor of casual sex are just kinky regional ideas from New England or southern California until they play in the Breadbasket.

Why is Kansas City the capital of this nation? Take a look at the options. First of all, Chicago is the capital of nothing since the Midwest doesn’t exist.

Basically, Chicago is best understood as a Foundry town. It has a lot of the decline and industrialization problems and overcrowding and minority problems that are typical of the Foundry. It is an important city, but it can best be understood as a border town between trade and ideas, between the Breadbasket and the Foundry. Border towns can be just as important as capitals. That is the way to understand Chicago.

St. Louis can’t be the capital of the Breadbasket because, first of all, it is a border town between Dixie and the Breadbasket. This is the place where a lot of cultural attitudes change between the South and the Plains. Second, it is somewhat of an outpost for the Foundry-like problems. And third, Missouri is such a mixed-up place that even the Federal Reserve recognizes that it isn’t one place and has a capital in both St. Louis and Kansas City.

So the only real competition we are left with is Minneapolis. It is not unusual to have a two-city competition. We see it all over North America. We see New York-Chicago, Houston-Dallas, Los Angeles-San Francisco, Anchorage-Fairbanks. So the question then is, why not Minneapolis? I picked Kansas City for several reasons. The first is its sheer centrality. It is not that far from the exact center of the continent. More important, in the last century, if you had drawn a line between New York and San Francisco and had figured out where in mid-America you were going to make your fortune, clearly you would not have picked 400 miles northwest of Chicago, especially if you had experienced its winter. You would have realized that Kansas City or someplace like it was going to be the place to make your fame and fortune.

The second reason for picking Kansas City is that its economic strength is so reflective of this Breadbasket nation. This is a city which has farms within the city limits. At the same time, as someone has said, you manufacture everything here except ships and cigarettes. This is the kind of diversity that we are looking for in a Breadbasket capital.

But for me, more important than the statistics is the way Kansas City reflects a certain bedrock philosophy. This is the most important reason for its selection. Let me try to explain what I mean by that. There are certain holders of the cultural mirrors, like Harold Ross, who used to be the editor of The New Yorker. He made it abundantly clear that he had little use for the “old lady from Dubuque.†As a result, a lot of people in the Breadbasket have developed a certain defensiveness. They think this is the best place in the world to live. But the Breadbasket is by no means parochial. They’ve been internationalists all along. And there is a lot of truth to that.

First of all, this is a great center of learning, with all the land grant universities. This chain of land grant universities is unmatched in educational achievements for everyone. And there is one of the most sophisticated senses of international interdependence here, for two reasons. First, everyone here knows where the Minuteman bases and silos are even if Easterners and Westerners don’t. And on the brighter side, they also know that the weather over Siberia or the political climate in the Middle East is going to have an immediate impact on the Breadbasket. When you see that the Soviet Union is going into its third straight bad harvest, you know that means better vacations, more John Deere equipment, more jobs for union members, more activity for the Fed. What happens in Siberia is almost as important here as what happens in Washington.

Finally, what it boils down to is that Kansas City is the capital because of the nature of its soul. I want to quote from the terrific book Missouri: Faces and Places, with photos by Wes Lyle and text by John Hall. Hall writes about Kansas City,

We’re the rivers and the faces and the streets and the straight lines of steel coming together. There is another city rising up from man’s imaginings. The essence of this place is the minglings of its fountains and its jazz. Kansas City is on the edge of the prairie, looking off into the future from different beginnings. It has its own particular sound and light.

And that’s why it is the capital of the Breadbasket.
See? It isn't just me.

Link: The Nine Nations of North America
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-05-2010, 01:08 PM
 
Location: Southern Minnesota
5,984 posts, read 13,409,881 times
Reputation: 3371
I can't believe that map puts Houston (or at least its western suburbs), Austin (TX) and Minneapolis in the same region.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-05-2010, 01:36 PM
 
398 posts, read 993,533 times
Reputation: 391
Quote:
Originally Posted by kazoopilot View Post
I can't believe that map puts Houston (or at least its western suburbs), Austin (TX) and Minneapolis in the same region.
It puts a portion of the Gulf of Mexico in the Breadbasket, because so much of the grain, raw materials, and manufactured products from the plains and Midwest are sent to ports on the Gulf for shipment overseas. It's about economic ties. It's the same reason it puts the Lake Superior region in the Breadbasket, because of shipping traffic on the St. Lawrence Seaway.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-05-2010, 07:46 PM
 
Location: Cleveland bound with MPLS in the rear-view
5,509 posts, read 11,871,642 times
Reputation: 2501
Well I guess that seals it, Joel Garreau says KC is important. Let's just give up.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-05-2010, 09:12 PM
 
Location: Minneapolis
2,330 posts, read 3,808,696 times
Reputation: 4029
That book is horribly out of date and does not reflect American society as it exists today. Not that that has any bearing on Minneapolis vs Kansas City.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-05-2010, 10:30 PM
 
Location: Minneapolis
2,526 posts, read 3,049,838 times
Reputation: 4343
Garreau also chose Detroit as the capitol of "The Foundry". Among the cities located in this "state": New York, Chicago, Toronto, and Philadelphia!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > General U.S. > City vs. City

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top