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I agree with you on all this. It doesn't make a ton of sense to bicker about arbitrary distinctions, but this is City-Data and that's what we do. So my gripe with DC/Baltimore and to a lesser extent, the Bay Area, is that they're far more decentralized than the vast majority of what are classified as mega cities (interestingly, the only one that's really spread across a few cities is Rhine-Ruhr which doesn't actually use the names of the principal cities of Cologne, Dusseldorf, and Dortmund). My personal take is that CSA can be OK, but it would have to be looked at on a case by case basis.
Chicago is growing the slowest of those 3, but it fits the mold of the prototypical mega city with a massive central urban core that's not even close to being rivaled by another urban core within the region. The Bay Area is more decentralized obviously, but sustains significant density across the region. DC/Baltimore, in my opinion, is too spread out with limited density connecting the two suburban areas to really be a Mega City even if it hits the 10 million threshold. The Distance between Baltimore and Washington is comparable to the Distance between San Francisco/Oakland and San Jose. The difference is that a much higher percentage of the suburban population lives directly between San Francisco/Oakland and San Jose than what you find in DC/Baltimore. In DC/Baltimore, so much of the population lives South and West of DC or North and East of Baltimore. The space between isn't nearly as developed/connected as it is in the Bay Area.
So for me, it's hard to call DC a mega city in spite of the very clear overlap between the Baltimore/DC areas because they're not nearly as physically intertwined as the Bay Area or Rhine-Ruhr. But I'm sure if the CSA surpasses 10 million people that'll be plenty for some people to hang their hat on.
Pretty much my take on it as well since Chicago is closest in CSA, MSA, and urban area per the US census. What constitutes a megacity can differ greatly from person to person, but no city outside NYC and LA even equivocally hits the numbers threshold, so there’s nothing to quibble about yet.
What do you mean? I stated what the situation pretty exactly. DC CSA and Bay Area CSA are by far the closest alongside Chicago CSA to hit the standard cutoff for megacity. Whether or not someone accepts CSA as the way to do so is different. Generally, the megacity designation would go by the most prominent city in the region or have a regional sobriquet of sorts, so calling it Baltimore would be unlikely to catch on. Of course, you’ve already been told this several times probably.
It's not the DC CSA, it is the Baltimore-Washington CSA. You can flip it how you want, but Baltimore is the OTHER prominent name in this designation.
Trying to gauge your comprehension level, I said where in "THIS" thread did anyone call DC a mega city.
Secondly, I created no such a thread stating that DC is surpassing LA. That thread was about CSA regions only. DC-Baltimore CSA is poised to be 3rd in 2020, and that thread was questioning IF it would ever catch LA CSA which is 2nd. That's it.
Thirdly, nowhere in that thread did anyone call DC a "mega city" either.
You like to play ring around the rosy on the same arguments as if you don't understand what is being said but you do. I'm good man...
You're arguing semantics.
Bottom line: stop bringing up Baltimore and you'd never hear from me.
I'll even let y'all have that thread in the DC forum about DC having a 100k more people than Baltimore. Just in case you try to tell me that DC doesn't think about Baltimore .
Location: That star on your map in the middle of the East Coast, DMV
8,128 posts, read 7,558,075 times
Reputation: 5785
Quote:
Originally Posted by KodeBlue
You're arguing semantics.
Bottom line: stop bringing up Baltimore and you'd never hear from me.
I'll even let y'all have that thread in the DC forum about DC having a 100k more people than Baltimore. Just in case you try to tell me that DC doesn't think about Baltimore .
Unfortunately you're the last person who can say that since you talk about DC more than any other person representing Baltimore on this entire site. Random threads you just insert yourself and or "The DMV is separate from Baltimore" into conversation. You're known for trolling threads at the first mention of DC just to insert Baltimore in the conversation. If I had a dollar for every thread you insert yourself into unprovoked just to push your agenda! Prime example..page 1 of THIS THREAD. Lmao you have nobody fooled out here but yourself brotha.
Location: That star on your map in the middle of the East Coast, DMV
8,128 posts, read 7,558,075 times
Reputation: 5785
Quote:
Originally Posted by OyCrumbler
Pretty much my take on it as well since Chicago is closest in CSA, MSA, and urban area per the US census. What constitutes a megacity can differ greatly from person to person, but no city outside NYC and LA even equivocally hits the numbers threshold, so there’s nothing to quibble about yet.
This country as big as it is, was not built to have so many "mega cities" more so than multiple major metropolises with large a suburban area. Mega cities normally form in countries where there is only a couple major metros in the whole nation save for China. Most foreign mega cities urban area is so dense and strong that many of them literally feel like people are piled on top of each other because it's so dense. Many of America's largest cities are dense but not as urbanized or vast as compared to mega cities of the world like Shanghai, Manila, Bangkok, or Lagos. America is full of big ole metro areas with a lot of suburban sprawl and medium size city proper.
Last edited by the resident09; 06-07-2019 at 02:35 PM..
Unfortunately you're the last person who can say that since you talk about DC more than any other person representing Baltimore on this entire site. Random threads you just insert yourself and or "The DMV is separate from Baltimore" into conversation. You're known for trolling threads at the first mention of DC just to insert Baltimore in the conversation. If I had a dollar for every thread you insert yourself into unprovoked just to push your agenda! Prime example..page 1 of THIS THREAD. Lmao you have nobody fooled out here but yourself brotha.
What agenda? Show me where I inserted my self in unprovoked posts to push my agenda. Show me where DC was the topic, Baltimore had absolutely nothing to do with the post/thread and I just randomly brought it up.
Literally everyday you're logged in to C-D, you're bringing up Baltimore in some form or fashion.
Your reply to this post should consist of receipts. Don't take too long now.
They've replaced every other city in that regard. They'll be calling it the DC-Baltimore-Philly-Raleigh region before too long.
I understand the psychology of it-well, since D.C. is the nations capital, then everything should be consolidated around it, right? Similar to trying to put everything in the northern half of California in the orbit of San Francisco. I literally got out of a Lyft two hours ago where a tourist identified Humboldt County as "San Francisco Bay Area" in describing where she was visiting from.
NYC and Philly are a unique case in that, its the only area with two cities/metros of thoses sizes so close together.
The nations top city with a top tier city 50+ miles from it. In most cases you have a major city with a second or third tier city trying to latch on like, SanFran(major)/Oakland(minor), DC(major)/Bmore(minor), Dallas(major)/FW(minor), LA(major)/SD(minor), Chi(major)/Milwuakee(minor).
That is not the case with NYC(major+++)/Philly(major). People commute from Bucks county(Philly MSA, borders Philly) to NYC thanks to amtrak's accela train. The commuting patterns between NYC and Philly are the most complex in the nation, given the overlapping nature of Mercer and Bucks counties. Some other things to take into consideration, are that Both MSA's share Jersey, which is built out between them(minus the pine barrens) with a shared shoreline. Also, county sizes, Philly(135sq. mi.) Mercr(226 sq. miles), and the tiny NYC/NNJ counties. If this area had counties that were anywhere near 1,000 sq. miles, like most of the regions in question, than Philly(county) and NYC(county/counties) would probably border each other.
The point is the region that strecthes from Philly to NYC is by far the most built up in the country, and thus would make the most sense, and probably has the best chance of ever becoming considered a true Megacity like greater Tokyo.
Pulling this old post up to note that the city order in the Washington-Baltimore CSA is an exception to the Census Bureau's own rule, which is to list the core cities in a CSA in declining population order; Baltimore is the larger of the two. And as far as overlap is concerned, let's not forget that one of the three major airports serving the region - the one that was built and owned by the City of Baltimore - bears the name of both cities now: Baltimore-Washington International Thurgood Marshall Airport.
This fact would also make the characterization of Washington as major and Baltimore as minor in the above post inaccurate. That characterization would only apply in the sense of influence on the nation; as the nation's (political) capital, Washington has no other peer in the Northeast save New York, which is the capital of everything else save entertainment, where LA is the capital of that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kidphilly
For this to become a single CSA Mercer would have to become a MSA county of Philly (As it was up until 1999 and in 2000 it was a 24.8% commuter rate with Philly, just missed) and retain the 15% with the NYC MSA (which it is) but both the Philly and NYC MSAs qualify to count Mercer as an CSA county. These two will be one CSA but doubt they will ever be one MSA. But on your calc - it only takes one county to create the CSA link, not the total commuter base.
For one MSA, no it requires the core city (in this instance NYC) to continue the 25% draw, so this will never happen as the link would have to be straight through Philly the core county in the Philly MSA - MSAs only allow for one main core and all others to qualify at the MSA.
This is why SA and Austin may become a CSA but not a MSA (the two cores will fight each other and not meet the flow in any single direction). This is alo why DFW could actually be be split at the MSA at some point in the future as FW gets larger.
I believe someone said that an MSA or CSA can have only one core city.
That's definitely not the case: Dallas-Fort Worth, San Francisco-Oakland, and especially Minneapolis-St. Paul have two. In the case of the last of those three, it would be impossible for it not to: the two cities are next-door neighbors and close to each other in population; Minneapolis is Minnesota's most populous city by a slight margin over St. Paul, the state's capital city.
Mercer County (Trenton/Princeton*), NJ, is an interesting case because its commuting patterns could put it in either the Philly or New York CSAs; employment growth in and around Princeton has attracted more commuters from neighboring Middlesex County (New Brunswick), which was already part of the New York CSA. That is what probably led the OMB to move it from the Philly to the New York CSA in the 1990s.
Nielsen, OTOH, continues to put Mercer County in the Philadelphia DMA (media market). This makes sense, as Philadelphia's dominant network TV station maintains a Trenton bureau while none of the New York stations do. In addition, Philadelphia-area media report on local news in Mercer County while The New York Times covers Trenton only because it's New Jersey's capital city.
*Princeton University is where it is because the Presbyteries of New York and Philadelphia each wanted to establish a college in the 1740s. The two religious bodies decided to go in on one together and chose a site for it that was exactly midway between the two cities.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DANNYY
Says who? You LOL LOL LOL
And what? Bias definition? Are you insane and out of your mind? Have you honestly never heard the term before and what it applies to?
I made this thread for Washington DC-Baltimore. You want to try sticking to the topic?
It's not my definition. All your posts do is demean everything other people say.
Try looking it up to see where I got it from first before saying I made the definition for it up: Urban Dictionary: megacity
Here you can see it on dictionary.com also: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/megacity Towards the center of the page.
Damn how much I hate dealing with the likes of the clueless.
Eh, I was just saying it the same way the US Census does. But I'll say Baltimore-Washington DC, only cause it would seem right as Baltimore is the larger city.
I think the only reason the CSA reverses the order is to soothe the inflated egos of (Official) Washingtonians.
Someone else also pointed out the greater overlap between Philly and New York vs. Philly and DC. The funny thing is, the Philadelphia MSA and CSA both border both of the other CSAs; Philadelphia's MSA includes Wilmington, Del., and its commutershed - and that commutershed includes one county in Maryland, Cecil, its northeasternmost. Cecil and Harford counties border each other, and Harford is part of the Baltimore-Washington CSA/Baltimore MSA. As that population density map above shows, there's already a nearly continuous band of high-density counties stretching from about Fredericksburg to above New Haven, but as of now, Cecil and Harford counties aren't as densely built as the counties in Central New Jersey are.
Given the non-trivial number of people who reside in Bucks County and work in the New York CSA, it might be possible to say that Philadelphia and New York already form a single megacity with two core cities, and Amtrak's Acela makes it possible for a few hundred people to live in one core city and work in the other (the usual linkage is live in Philadelphia/work in New York because housing in Center City Philadelphia is far less expensive than housing in Manhattan - or in New York City as a whole).
Edited to add: And DANNYY? It would have helped a lot if you had bothered to define your variables in that series of equations you posted way upthread. What did E, F, P, k, t, w, and so on represent?
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