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I know ppl in TX that I had to explain what grits and country ham biscuits were but they looked at me weird when I told them I never had tamales, enchildas, and taquitos. I've had plenty of restaurants tell me the tea comes unsweet. WTF, really? Cinco de Mayo is a big deal down here. Public school students pledge allegiance to the Texas flag every day in schools here. The "south" has a common identity. Texas has it's own unique identity with a major influence from the South, Mexico, midwest and west. It's geographically south(west) but it is not the south that those real southerners are used to. Nor do most TX care to be referred to as "southerners." They are Texans first and foremost. A confederate flag organization wanted to sue the state for not allowing the flags on license plates. It got shot down without a 2nd thought not necessarily b/c the state wanted to do the right thing but because TX doesn't identify with the South enough to care about it as much as other states would have
Great points. Especially the one about having to explain to native Texans about a lot of types of traditional Southern foods and how they replace many of them with Tex Mex and Texas styled stuff like chili and chicken fried steak. Heck, I can't even find decent fried chicken in Dallas, and fried chicken is about as Southern as it gets.
Density is nice and all of those condos do provide impressive multiple skylines, but shadowy foreign investment is hardly a 'real' economy. It is also still a very auto-centric place - even in the booming Brickell area, with much lower rail ridership than Atlanta. Miami/SE Florida is simply in a lower tier compared to its Southern peers when it comes to a corporate base, not to mention a solid middle class.
But yeah, it does have a pretty skyline.
The Question was which has the most "big city feel of the South" and has nothing to do with GDP. If you want to drag the GDP of Miami into it? It is "fourth" for Miami of the cities listed and Atlanta is "third" behind the 2 big TEXAS metros which have $200 Billion dollars more in GDP.
The difference between the annual GDPs of Miami & Atlanta is about $ 30 Billion between them yet Atlanta has so many Fortune 500 Companies (American) over Miami and yet you call Miami's economy " but shadowy foreign investment is hardly a 'real' economy."
What shadowy "foreign investment" are you talking about?
Miami has a plethora of US Companies whose Latin American HQ's are based in Miami so to deny that Miami has no Corporate presence is not true not even to mention Multi-National Corporations that are in the Miami metro.
As for transit ridership Brickell only has one Metrorail station and you know Miami's Metrorail system is only half of MARTA's at only 25 miles long so it isn't fair to compare the two.
Miami's Metromover carries 30,000+ passengers a day and is free since 2002.
"Miami/SE Florida is simply in a lower tier compared to its Southern peers when it comes to a corporate base, not to mention a solid middle class."
This is quite funny! Miami has no "middle class"?
Again what does this have to do with "big city feel?"
Great points. Especially the one about having to explain to native Texans about a lot of types of traditional Southern foods and how they replace many of them with Tex Mex and Texas styled stuff like chili and chicken fried steak. Heck, I can't even find decent fried chicken in Dallas, and fried chicken is about as Southern as it gets.
LOL, Exactly! And I never had chicken fried steak before coming here. I was shocked when I had to explain grits though. That's the equivalent of explaining what a hot dog/hamburger is to someone from a city claiming to be american.
I get differences like TX pete vs Louisiana hotsauce or vinegar based bbq vs tx style or having to explain cheerwine but some things should be common across all of the south. That includes: Grits, Fried Chicken, Deviled Eggs, Cobbler, gravy, banana pudding and hush puppies. If anyone in your so called southern region questions any of those, I can't take them seriously. Especially if they are peeling tamales and eat tortillas like it's white bread.
This person I'm referring to is a TX native. Even ate chitlings (fried though which is also weird to me). But she put me on to Cream of Wheat which I didn't know anything about so... yea...... And as far as fried chicken in Dallas, try Babes Chicken
The Question was which has the most "big city feel of the South" and has nothing to do with GDP. If you want to drag the GDP of Miami into it? It is "fourth" for Miami of the cities listed and Atlanta is "third" behind the 2 big TEXAS metros which have $200 Billion dollars more in GDP.
The difference between the annual GDPs of Miami & Atlanta is about $ 30 Billion between them yet Atlanta has so many Fortune 500 Companies (American) over Miami and yet you call Miami's economy " but shadowy foreign investment is hardly a 'real' economy."
What shadowy "foreign investment" are you talking about?
Miami has a plethora of US Companies whose Latin American HQ's are based in Miami so to deny that Miami has no Corporate presence is not true not even to mention Multi-National Corporations that are in the Miami metro.
As for transit ridership Brickell only has one Metrorail station and you know Miami's Metrorail system is only half of MARTA's at only 25 miles long so it isn't fair to compare the two.
Miami's Metromover carries 30,000+ passengers a day and is free since 2002.
"Miami/SE Florida is simply in a lower tier compared to its Southern peers when it comes to a corporate base, not to mention a solid middle class."
This is quite funny! Miami has no "middle class"?
Again what does this have to do with "big city feel?"
You basically just proved all of my points with that map. Thanks!
If Miami had a solid corporate base, you wouldn't be 'forced' against your will to live and work in Orlando.
Everyone knows that the 'shadowy' foreign investors are what fuel South Florida's real estate market, and it has been this way for decades.
While we have a parade of impressive corporate relocations month after month in Atlanta the middle class of Dade, Broward & Palm Beach Counties continues to flee north in record numbers.
When was the last time a major company announced a relocation with lot's of high paying jobs to Miami/SE Florida, Bob? And why do you think non-immigrant natives are bailing out, again in record numbers? And no, they are not all
racists.
The smaller Florida metros of Orlando, Tampa Bay and Jacksonville are shaming Miami/SE Florida with quality job growth and prosperity, and you should frankly be more humble in regards to your hometown. There are serious fundamental issues with the economy of SE Florida Bob, and all of us that are paying attention know it. Get a clue.
NO, I worded it like that to make a point. A lot of southern cities I'm referring to have a more biracial demographic that reflects the historic dominance of the plantation system. Those two cultures intermixing provide a particular flavor that only the south can emulate. It's more black and white. That's one of many factors that make Houston seem to have a less than southern vibe to me. The fact that 1 out of 2 people you meet will be Hispanic or Asian makes it feel less southern to me. I'm aware that 1 out of 4 people will be black or white. Houston is too diverse AND cosmo to feel tradionally southern or stereotypical southern to me.
It's just how I see it people. Different strokes different folks. I am from a state that's on the edge of the south. Don't kill me for having an opinion which isn't that far fetched according to the map that I provided that mentions that TX,OK,FL,KY, and VA may or may not be included in someone's idea of the south. And a smaller % of peeps also include MO, WV, MD, and DC with the southern region.
Go visit, 3rd ward, 5th ward, settegast, south park, sunny side, acres homes, trinity gardens and tell me you are not in the south.
all thise foods you mention were are a made in my family and I was born and raised in Houston.
Yeah but forgot to tell him to take out a loan when visiting that restaurant. Henry's isn't bad either tho. Also, Saint Paradise Cafe either. Not as good as Henry's or Ooh's and Aah's but decent.
Yeah for a hole-in-the-wall, Ooh's & Aah's can get fairly pricy on the dinner menu, probably an average of $17 for some large-sized menu items.
Go visit, 3rd ward, 5th ward, settegast, south park, sunny side, acres homes, trinity gardens and tell me you are not in the south.
all thise foods you mention were are a made in my family and I was born and raised in Houston.
Houston is the only big city in Texas where Southern cooking and Soul Food are done fully and correctly. It's definitely a Southern city. I don't care how many Mexicans and Asians live there, it's too close to Louisiana and East Texas (the only part of the state that NOBODY ever says isn't part of the South) not to be.
I agree. I don't see how anyone could deny that Houston isn't southern. The southern culture is definitely prevalent here.
If you say so... And he and you are directing me to majority black areas. I'm considering the city as a whole which is why it doesn't seem as southern to me.
I think we can all agree that city of Dallas doesn't feel southern but I can direct you to some black parts of Oak Cliff to change your mind. I can do the same thing for Kansas and Missouri. For the most part, blacks across all those states share many commonalities and you can safely make the conclusion that they are all southerners.
I can point to trick daddy in miami and thousands like him and say "see, miami is a city with traditional southern flair." That's not taking the entire picture into consideration.
TX is TX with southern, mexican, and midwestern influence. FL is FL with a southern, carribean, and latin influence. Oklahoma is more midwest. African Americans are typical african americans in the entire region. I'd lump VA into mid atlantic with a southern and eastern influence. The south (traditional southern states without enough outside influences to dilute its tradional southern flair) consist of SC,GA,AL,AR,TN,MS,LA. LA comes with a unique creole influence and NC has a large eastern/mid Atlantic influence but not large enough to dilute its southern flair. TX and FL just have too much Latin influence to consider them to have a southern feel.
Take a poll and have ppl list the first two or three states that come to mind when you mention southern state. I bet TX and FL despite its popularity wouldn't rank high and GA is the only state that can compete with them in a popularity contest. What does that tell you
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