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Fayetteville is a tough call. The county population might actually tell us the real story there. Keep an eye on Harnett County - the southern edge is turning into a Fayetteville exurb, the northern edge is turning into a Raleigh exurb, with a long, narrow swath of VERY rural land through the center of the county.
I've always felt that for Harnett County. Everything south of the Cape Fear River felt like it belong to Fayetteville and North of the river belongs to Raleigh. I know alot of Military people live in southern Harnett especially the Overhills area
If Raleigh/Durham went back to pre-2003 status, then the same would probably happen for all cities (including Charlotte). This would make your statement false and would result in little to no change for Raleigh/Durham in a national MSA ranking.
In the context of this discussion, I think the comparison being discussed was only the components of the MSAs that are in the state of North Carolina. I am sure you have this in your back pocket so I won't spend the time figuring it out for myself...what is the NC part to Charlotte's current MSA? What is NC's contribution to Charlotte's current CSA? I think those are the numbers that were being discussed.
Since SC's numbers are not yet released, Charlotte will not have their complete MSA and CSA numbers until then.
I've always felt that for Harnett County. Everything south of the Cape Fear River felt like it belong to Fayetteville and North of the river belongs to Raleigh. I know alot of Military people live in southern Harnett especially the Overhills area
That makes a lot of sense to me. Northern Harnett County is really, really close to Fuquay-Varina in Wake County. For the non-NC crowd, yes there really is a city named Fuquay-Varina. :-) Since F-V is growing rapidly, I can see it continuing to intertwine culturally with Northern Harnett in years to come. F-V will emerge as the "Cary" of far southern Wake Co.
Since Harnett Co. is the totality of the Dunn Micropolitan area and that Census designated place is already included in the Raleigh-Durham CSA, I can one day imagine Fayetteville being swallowed into the CSA. But, that's probably a few decades away at the earliest.
In the context of this discussion, I think the comparison being discussed was only the components of the MSAs that are in the state of North Carolina. I am sure you have this in your back pocket so I won't spend the time figuring it out for myself...what is the NC part to Charlotte's current MSA? What is NC's contribution to Charlotte's current CSA? I think those are the numbers that were being discussed.
Since SC's numbers are not yet released, Charlotte will not have their complete MSA and CSA numbers until then.
What a silly question. What's Philly and NYC without New Jersey? Chicago without Indiana and Wisconsin? Memphis without Arkansas and Mississippi? Cincinnati without Kentucky and Indiana? St Louis without Illinois? I mean really?
Anyways, I am not 100% sure on this one, but I do believe that Charlotte lost Iredell and Rowan county back in 2003 (both became CSA counties instead). Charlotte also gained VERY rural Anson county (only 25,000 people). If the Triangle went back to pre-2003 status, would the same happen for Charlotte (including the loss of Anson county; which is not a loss at all population wise)?
As it stands now, here is how things would look if the 2003 changes never happened. Metro Raleigh/Durham would become 1.7 million (4,500 sq/mi of land) while metro Charlotte would become 2.1 million (3,500 sq/mi of land). I have said this many times. If metro Charlotte and the Triangle ever covered the same land area (which never seems to happen) metro Charlotte would have 600,000 more people.
Now, to answer your weird question specifically. Pre-2003 metro Charlotte today (minus York county SC) would be 1.85 million (2,800 sq/mi of land). Now, compare this to Raleigh/Durham's 1.7 million (4,500 sq/mi of land) and there's your answer. Any more questions?
What a silly question. What's Philly and NYC without New Jersey? Chicago without Indiana and Wisconsin? Memphis without Arkansas and Mississippi? Cincinnati without Kentucky and Indiana? St Louis without Illinois? I mean really?
Anyways, I am not 100% sure on this one, but I do believe that Charlotte lost Iredell and Rowan county back in 2003 (both became CSA counties instead). Charlotte also gained VERY rural Anson county (only 25,000 people). If the Triangle went back to pre-2003 status, would the same happen for Charlotte (including the loss of Anson county; which is not a loss at all population wise)?
As it stands now, here is how things would look if the 2003 changes never happened. Metro Raleigh/Durham would become 1.7 million (4,500 sq/mi of land) while metro Charlotte would become 2.1 million (3,500 sq/mi of land). I have said this many times. If metro Charlotte and the Triangle ever covered the same land area (which never seems to happen) metro Charlotte would have 600,000 more people.
Now, to answer your weird question specifically. Pre-2003 metro Charlotte today (minus York county SC) would be 1.85 million (2,800 sq/mi of land). Now, compare this to Raleigh/Durham's 1.7 million (4,500 sq/mi of land) and there's your answer. Any more questions?
urban....please don't shoot the messenger. I am only conveying what I understand to the be the context of this discussion. We will ONLY know the NC part of the Charlotte metro data today. Is that so hard to understand?
Also, why must every single discussion about anything in North Carolina or Charlotte be used as a vehicle to jab at Raleigh and the Triangle?
What exactly did I say in my earlier response to warrant such a response?
What a silly question. What's Philly and NYC without New Jersey? Chicago without Indiana and Wisconsin? Memphis without Arkansas and Mississippi? Cincinnati without Kentucky and Indiana? St Louis without Illinois? I mean really?
Anyways, I am not 100% sure on this one, but I do believe that Charlotte lost Iredell and Rowan county back in 2003 (both became CSA counties instead). Charlotte also gained VERY rural Anson county (only 25,000 people). If the Triangle went back to pre-2003 status, would the same happen for Charlotte (including the loss of Anson county; which is not a loss at all population wise)?
As it stands now, here is how things would look if the 2003 changes never happened. Metro Raleigh/Durham would become 1.7 million (4,500 sq/mi of land) while metro Charlotte would become 2.1 million (3,500 sq/mi of land). I have said this many times. If metro Charlotte and the Triangle ever covered the same land area (which never seems to happen) metro Charlotte would have 600,000 more people.
Now, to answer your weird question specifically. Pre-2003 metro Charlotte today (minus York county SC) would be 1.85 million (2,800 sq/mi of land). Now, compare this to Raleigh/Durham's 1.7 million (4,500 sq/mi of land) and there's your answer. Any more questions?
That was actually me that brought up the comparison of Charlotte and Raleigh-Durham as their populations pertain to NC. I think this is a somewhat fair comparison in lokking at how each respective metro impacts the state of NC. I definitely see what you're saying about metros that extend across state lines, it definitely makes their impact on the state they reside seem smaller. For example, Raleigh's impact on NC will seem closer Charlotte's impact on NC because some of Charlotte's economic clout extends to SC.
However, since the discussion is about NC in particular I think the discussion is fair. And you're figures are quite interesting. And btw, wtf Charlotte gets Anson but loses Rowan and Iredell. That makes sense.
What exactly did I say in my earlier response to warrant such a response?
Sorry, but I was responding based on many of your past statements. You in particular (and a few others) seem to have a gripe with Charlotte's CSA of 2.4 million and Raleigh/Durham's CSA of 1.7 million (as if Charlotte was "favored" by the US census or something). Also, another poster had this to say:
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidals
If Raleigh-Durham have been re-combined into a single MSA, then I'd expect it to be very close to Charlotte.
This statement is false on so many levels. First of all, Raleigh/Durham is NOT the only city in the Nation that lost out in 2003. Furthermore, quite a few population geeks (like myself) are running around city-data touting CSAs (as if they are MSAs). The truth is that many current CSAs are actually closer to the pre-2003 MSAs. In Charlotte's and Raleigh's case (for example) the CSA reflects reality better than the MSA. So, if one is going to reunite Raleigh/Durham, then one must reunite Charlotte with its surrounding counties to the north. And if this is done in NC, it must then be done nationwide. In the end, NC cities will not move up much in a national ranking. That's my whole point. Therefore, this constant "if Raleigh/Durham were reunited" argument is pointless. You lost people on paper in 2003. Oh well, many of us did too. Get over it already. Most people here post 1.7 million for Raleigh (CSA) and only 1.7 million for Charlotte (MSA) anyway. If anyone should have a "gripe", it is the Charlotte folks. We have commuter bus service to three different CSA counties that border us yet Anson county (pop. 25,000) is in our MSA and doesn't border us at all. In fact, the main town of that county (Wadesboro) is an hour and a half away from Charlotte. You can get to Winston-Salem from Charlotte faster than you can get to Wadesboro.
Last edited by urbancharlotte; 03-02-2011 at 11:53 AM..
And btw, wtf Charlotte gets Anson but loses Rowan and Iredell. That makes sense.
Don't quote me on this one because I am going strictly by memory. However, I am fairly certain that Charlotte was a seven county metro pre-2003 (Meck, Gaston, York SC, Iredell, Rowan, Cabarrus, Union). This makes sense, because it places all of the major "ring cities" of Charlotte into one MSA.
Concord-Cabarrus
Gastonia-Gaston
Rock Hill- York SC
Mooresville/Statesville-Iredell
Monroe/Indian Trail-Union
Kannapolis-Cabarrus/Rowan (town is in both counties)
Salisbury (not truly a "ring city" but only 30 minutes away from Charlotte)-Rowan
If my memory is correct (which I think it is), Charlotte took a heavy hit in 2003 just like Raleigh/Durham. However, the US census came back and "tossed us a bone" by giving Charlotte a 13 county "CSA" (that nobody respects).
Still, Charlotte would be 2 million-plus based on the original MSA (the MSA that noboby respects). Now, I have seen a few of our posters in the Atl post Charlotte as either 2.1 million or 2.4 million. They are no doubt using the old MSA for the former and the current CSA for the latter.
Last edited by urbancharlotte; 03-02-2011 at 11:59 AM..
So, I just checked the Census website and NC county information is there. I calculated the 7 county Raleigh-Durham CSA and came up with 1,769,977. That's pretty on par with what the Census has projected in the years running up to this Census. I haven't found the city data yet, only county information. I'll keep looking.
I added Raleigh/Cary MSA and Raleigh/Durham CSA to the list. I'll let someone else do Charlotte and the Triad as I am not as familiar with their counties. I added them up with my laptop calculator. I apologize in advance for any unintended adding mistakes. That's why I refrained from putting the word official after them.
If my numbers are right, Raleigh/Durham jumps up a spot in the primary census statistical areas by jumping SLC. Table of United States primary census statistical areas - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Okay...cobbling together the absolute growth number from a Raleigh news website added to the 2000 Census, it appears that Raleigh is 403,892. I'll add it above to the list. Watch out Omaha! You're next to be jumped.
I changed out one county for another and adjusted the CSA above. In the end, I am guessing the CSA's will be changing again in a couple of years.
Last edited by rnc2mbfl; 03-02-2011 at 01:01 PM..
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What's Philly and NYC without New Jersey? Chicago without Indiana and Wisconsin? Memphis without Arkansas and Mississippi? Cincinnati without Kentucky and Indiana? St Louis without Illinois? I mean really?
