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It doesn't matter dummy. There are replacement buses that are almost as fast as the trains. I've told you this multiple times, but you don't seem to be able to retain the information.
Toronto: every 3-4 minutes
Chicago: every 15 minutes
No, buses are not "nonexistant service".
This argument would only make sense if Chicago didn't have buses. But they do. Also you are comparing lines in Chicago that do not even exist in Toronto.
There is nothing here detailing $1 billion in subway improvements. Try again.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Urban_Man
No, you don't have to cross any street to get from Union Station to the subway. What the hell are you talking about? Both Union Station and the subway are on the south side of Front Street.
Yes, you do. You have to exit Union Station, and go outside, and then go back down into the subway.
How can you have a "replacement bus" when no rail line exists? There is nothing to replace!
Are you just pretending to be this stupid? There are buses running every 3-4 minutes the length of Yonge Street when the subway stops running. And there are buses running every 5 minutes the length of Bloor-Danforth when that subway stops running. Thus instead of taking the subway, you take the bus if the subway has stopped running.
Nobody can possibly be as stupid as you are coming across.
There is nothing here detailing $1 billion in subway improvements. Try again.
I didn't say there was $1 billion in subway improvements dumbass. I said that Union Station is undergoing a $1 billion expansion/renovation project. PART of that is subway improvements.
Quote:
Yes, you do. You have to exit Union Station, and go outside, and then go back down into the subway.
You said that you have to "cross the street". No you don't. There is no street to cross. In fact, you don't even have to go outside if you don't want to. There is an underground tunnel from Union Staton to the Royal York hotel, which is attached to the Union subway station. So if you absolutely don't want to go outside, you don't have to go outside at all.
Are you just pretending to be this stupid? There are buses running every 3-4 minutes the length of Yonge Street when the subway stops running.
What the hell are you talking about? You aren't following the conversation.
We are talking commuter rail. GO Transit and Metra. What do Yonge Street buses have to do with conversation?
Obviously a Metra line with poor service is better than a nonexistent Toronto commuter rail line. You could have one train a day and it still would be better than no trains whatsoever.
I didn't say there was $1 billion in subway improvements dumbass. I said that Union Station is undergoing a $1 billion expansion/renovation project. PART of that is subway improvements.
Yes, you did make that claim, and no, that is not what is happening. It looks like Via Rail and GO are receiving 300 million in future improvements, and the subway will remain a dump.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Urban_Man
You said that you have to "cross the street". No you don't. There is no street to cross.
Ok, then you "cross a lane" or "cross a plaza". In any case, you go outside and have to walk around.
They aren't connected, which sucks.
This argument would only make sense if Chicago didn't have buses. But they do. Also you are comparing lines in Chicago that do not even exist in Toronto.
Chicago doesn't have buses running every 3-5 minutes along the El/subway routes after 2am though. If you want to travel along an El/subway corridor in Chicago, you are going to take the train, which only runs every 15 minutes at those times. The buses in Toronto running along the subway corridors run every 3-5 minutes after 2am. Show me bus routes in Chicago running every 3-5 minutes after 2am. Hell, show me bus routes in Chicago running every 15 minutes after 2am. You can't. They don't exist. You're stuck taking an infrequent "El" train that runs only once every 15 minutes.
It doesn't matter that Chicago "has buses". It does not have ANY high frequency bus routes really late at night running along the rail corridors like Toronto does. Which is what we are comparing.
Obviously a Metra line with poor service is better than a nonexistent Toronto commuter rail line.
Toronto has 7 commuter rail lines. They are all very much "existent". We don't need any more lines because the lines already go in every direction from downtown anyways. Wherever you live in the suburbs, chances are you are within a few miles of a GO Train station.
Quote:
You could have one train a day and it still would be better than no trains whatsoever.
That's great, but there aren't any GO lines that have "no trains whatsoever".
Here is a map of the GO Train system. You can see that there are lines going in every direction, with no large "gaps" where one is many miles from a station:
I'm done for the night Michi and grapico. Have fun arguing with yourselves.
Wrong. There is over $10 billion worth of rapid expansion under construction in Toronto. And there's been tonnes of transit improvement in the urban core in recent years. For example the GO Trains run more frequently to/from Union Station now than they did in years past. The Lakeshore East/West lines now run every 30 minutes outside peak hours instead of every 60 minutes like they did prior to 2013.
You're wrong again Bob.
^Good post. But maybe some like waiting 2 hours for commuter rail? Not me, I prefer the 30 min wait.
Quote:
Originally Posted by grapico
But Chicago grew when rail was KING. Toronto is growing in a time of car being king, hence why Toronto's smaller system is packed in like sardines. It's not a better system though. There are projects going on at Wabash McCormick and a few more.
This is incorrect. Toronto has always been growing. There was never a population lost like Chicago had if you look at Toronto's population history. Its just that now there growth is even more than it was in the previous decades and is "out there" in the news and all that.
Again, you are excluding the TTC bus network which has more reach in Toronto than the one in Chicago does. Then when you add the streetcars that will double capacity by 2018, the surface transit system (bus/streetcars) in Toronto excels even more compared to Chicago's bus network. Chicago has a bigger rail network but Toronto excels in various other categories.
FOR CHICAGO:
-More train lines and stations.
-Cheaper fares.
FOR TORONTO:
-Safety (I don't think we need to explain safety in Chicago vs Toronto)
-Larger bus network + streetcars (already stated in various posts)
-Available public washrooms (Chicago has zero in the entire, larger El system)
-Headway between trains and buses during peak periods
-Headway between off peak periods.
-Headway during overnight service.
-Overall night service (Chi: 2 lines every 15 minutes + 17 bus routes.... Tor: 24 bus routes... one as frequent as every 3 mins)
-Higher ridership (this promotes more service, construction projects, expansion, etc)
-Connectivity
When you add it all up, you can make an argument for Toronto having overall better service.
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