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I guess what I meant is that if you live in Brooklyn, the restaurants and museums and parks and theatres and bars and other urban resources that you use on a day to day basis in your normal life are all over the city, and not just in Brooklyn. And the diversity and street life of Brooklyn absolutely has to do with the other boroughs! Lots of people from other boroughs work and play in Brooklyn every day. It's just like how when you see all kinds of people (locals not tourists) on the street in Manhattan - they don't all live there. Like for example, many of the Chinese who work, shop at and and own businesses in Manhattan Chinatown actually live in Brooklyn & Queens (this is one reason why most of Manhattan Chinatown closes down early - because people closed up and went home to Flushing and Sunset Park), but those people still contribute to the diversity of Manhattan in a completely valid way. It's the same with Brooklyn. I remember how lots of restaurants in my neighborhood in Brooklyn closed when we had that big snowstorm this winter because the staff couldn't make it in from the Bronx. It's all New York.
Yeah, but the same could be said of San Francisco and pretty much every other city in the world. The people you see at Fisherman's Wharf or on Market Street don't all live in San Francisco. Some may be from the Outer Bay whereas other may be from Europe.
I'm talking about things that are physically in Brooklyn versus things that are physically in San Francisco. I don't know why this comparison would be so odd and/or challenging. Market Street vs. Fulton Street; Land's End vs. Prospect Park; Castro vs. Boerum Hill. It's not rocket science.
Yeah, but the same could be said of San Francisco and pretty much every other city in the world. The people you see at Fisherman's Wharf or on Market Street don't all live in San Francisco. Some may be from the Outer Bay whereas other may be from Europe.
I'm talking about things that are physically in Brooklyn versus things that are physically in San Francisco. I don't know why this comparison would be so odd and/or challenging. Market Street vs. Fulton Street; Land's End vs. Prospect Park; Castro vs. Boerum Hill. It's not rocket science.
It's definitely not rocket science...but it's not basic reasoning either. It would be better if you were just comparing neighborhoods like that.
You said "which place do you prefer, based on these criteria", and then listed some physical things, but also a bunch of cultural things like "diversity" and "music scene" and "street life" and "art scene" - things that aren't static objects in a location, but are integral aspects of an entire city. San Fran is an entire city. Brooklyn is the largest borough of New York City.
For comparison, if the place Brooklynites go to see Broadway shows is...Broadway (true), would you say that in this kind of weird comparison you'd have to ignore that fact. Instead you'd figure out a place Broadway shows might be playing in Brooklyn, and then compare whatever that place is to the theatre district in SF, and then conclude that Brooklyn is less desirable to live in than SF if you like Broadway shows?
That's kind of silly. In the same way that comparing music and art and food using the same type of logic is flawed. Like, how do you separate working artists in Brooklyn from where they show their work in Chelsea? Artists don't live and work in Brooklyn because of its easy access to artisanal macaron shops. They live and work there because it's New York, and they're part of the NYC art scene. etc.
So can one just say "I prefer Brooklyn because it's New York City"? It's a simple and accurate statement. So...then if Brooklyn is New York City, then it follows logically that the whole comparison is really between SF & NYC.
But I mean, the whole city vs city forum is pretty silly anyway (my posting included). Sorry for breaking balls. I should just take everything posted here with a grain of salt.
I know Brooklyn is more dense, but when it comes to street vibrancy, Ive never seen anything in Brooklyn compare to Union Square, Chinatown, and other sections of central SF.
Overall, I'd say its very close, but Id give the edge to SF. Although Brooklyn does have more consistant street vibrancy, SFs high points surpass Brookyln.
Last edited by overunder12; 04-25-2011 at 07:29 PM..
Food- San Francisco has the best Asian cuisine outside of Asia, hands down.
Art- Maybe a tie. Both Brooklyn and SF are big art cities.
Diversity- Brooklyn and SF have roughly the same level of diversity, just in different proportions. If you switch the percentages of Asians with Blacks, the demographics of both cities are nearly identical. SF has more Asians and Brooklyn has more Blacks.
However, Brooklyn is much more segregated than SF. The Black neighborhoods in Brooklyn (i.e. Bed-Stuy, Fort Greene, Crown Heights, Brownsville, East New York) are roughly 80%+ Black. Neighborhoods like Bensonhurst are overwhelming Italian with some Chinese. Segregation in Brooklyn is as intense as how it was portrayed in Spike Lee's Do The Right Thing in 1989:
Architecture- SF is one of the most unmistakable cities in America and on the planet in terms of its unique architecture
Live Music Scene- It depends on what kind of music you like. It's probably another draw here. However, many local legendary artists of all genres only play in the Bay Area in SF while Brooklyn may attract more world famous artists.
Transportation- Draw.
Scenery- Many people say SF is more beautiful than NYC as a whole. I agree. However, the Brooklyn and Manhattan bridges as well as views of the Manhattan and Brooklyn skylines are breathtaking.
Street Vibrancy- Maybe another tie. SF is the graffiti mecca of the West Coast. But BK also has a lot of interesting street art and street dwelling weirdos as well.
Last edited by goldenchild08; 04-25-2011 at 07:55 PM..
It's definitely not rocket science...but it's not basic reasoning either. It would be better if you were just comparing neighborhoods like that.
You said "which place do you prefer, based on these criteria", and then listed some physical things, but also a bunch of cultural things like "diversity" and "music scene" and "street life" and "art scene" - things that aren't static objects in a location, but are integral aspects of an entire city. San Fran is an entire city. Brooklyn is the largest borough of New York City.
For comparison, if the place Brooklynites go to see Broadway shows is...Broadway (true), would you say that in this kind of weird comparison you'd have to ignore that fact. Instead you'd figure out a place Broadway shows might be playing in Brooklyn, and then compare whatever that place is to the theatre district in SF, and then conclude that Brooklyn is less desirable to live in than SF if you like Broadway shows?
That's kind of silly. In the same way that comparing music and art and food using the same type of logic is flawed. Like, how do you separate working artists in Brooklyn from where they show their work in Chelsea? Artists don't live and work in Brooklyn because of its easy access to artisanal macaron shops. They live and work there because it's New York, and they're part of the NYC art scene. etc.
So can one just say "I prefer Brooklyn because it's New York City"? It's a simple and accurate statement. So...then if Brooklyn is New York City, then it follows logically that the whole comparison is really between SF & NYC.
But I mean, the whole city vs city forum is pretty silly anyway (my posting included). Sorry for breaking balls. I should just take everything posted here with a grain of salt.
Sorry, I'm not following your logic here at all. By your reasoning, San Francisco would suffer from the same problem as Brooklyn. Not everyone that you see in San Francisco will live or work there. Oakland, San Jose and Richmond all have some impact on SF, right?
You can compare San Francisco to Brooklyn just as easily as you could Brooklyn to one of the other four Boroughs.
Food- San Francisco has the best Asian cuisine outside of Asia, hands down. I can't argue with this (though LA and Seattle would probably have something to say about this). But that's probably the only area in which SF has Brooklyn beat. Italian? That's BK. Polish? BK. West Indian? BK. Russian? BK has that on lock, too. Plus, the bagels and pizza you can get here are much better than what you find in SF.
Art- Maybe a tie. Both Brooklyn and SF are big art cities. Agreed.
Diversity- Brooklyn and SF have roughly the same level of diversity, just in different proportions. If you switch the percentages of Asians with Blacks, the demographics of both cities are nearly identical. SF has more Asians and Brooklyn has more Blacks. Good point. Without consulting the data, I'd say SF has more types of Asians, with Chinese being the overwhelming majority of Asians. My guess is that SF's Hispanics are mostly Mexican. Brooklyn has fewer Asians (with Chinese being the majority), but there are more types of Blacks and Hispanics. BK also has a much, much stronger Jewish and Italian presence, and ethnic whites are just more visible here than they are out there. I'd give this category to Brooklyn.
However, Brooklyn is much more segregated than SF. The Black neighborhoods in Brooklyn (i.e. Bed-Stuy, Fort Greene, Crown Heights, Brownsville, East New York) are roughly 80%+ Black. Neighborhoods like Bensonhurst are overwhelming Italian with some Chinese. Segregation in Brooklyn is as intense as how it was portrayed in Spike Lee's Do The Right Thing in 1989:
I don't think SF is any more integrated than Brooklyn.
Architecture- SF is one of the most unmistakable cities in America and on the planet in terms of its unique architecture. True, but it's tough not to recognize the Brownstones that have become so famous through movies and TV shows like "Do the Right Thing," "Crooklyn," and "Everybody Hates Chris."
Live Music Scene- It depends on what kind of music you like. It's probably another draw here. However, many local legendary artists of all genres only play in the Bay Area in SF while Brooklyn may attract more world famous artists. This is Brooklyn all the way. As far as Hip Hop goes, it's not even a contest. Then BK offers everything else that San Franciso offers.
Transportation- Draw.
Scenery- Many people say SF is more beautiful than NYC as a whole. I agree. However, the Brooklyn and Manhattan bridges as well as views of the Manhattan and Brooklyn skylines are breathtaking.
Street Vibrancy- Maybe another tie. SF is the graffiti mecca of the West Coast. But BK also has a lot of interesting street art and street dwelling weirdos as well. "It was me, Dez, and Main Three, right? And in the first car in small letters it said "All you see is" and you know, big, you know, block silver letters that said "crime in the city"
Sorry, I'm not following your logic here at all. By your reasoning, San Francisco would suffer from the same problem as Brooklyn. Not everyone that you see in San Francisco will live or work there. Oakland, San Jose and Richmond all have some impact on SF, right?
You can compare San Francisco to Brooklyn just as easily as you could Brooklyn to one of the other four Boroughs.
You can compare other boroughs because they start out with a common baseline, because all of them share the fact that they are NYC. If it was algebra, 'NYC' would cancel out in that equation. This is not the same.
^^This still doesn't make any sense. You can compare Brooklyn to other places sans reference to other boroughs. Just like you can compare SF to other places without reference to Oakland or Richmond.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rotodome
I guess what I meant is that if you live in Brooklyn, the restaurants and museums and parks and theatres and bars and other urban resources that you use on a day to day basis in your normal life are all over the city, and not just in Brooklyn.
This makes no sense at all. What does this have to do with the things that are in Brooklyn.
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