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Really I think clevland is bettter I would visit Clevland befor Philadelphia. And your numbers are wrong you should be comparing downtown Philadelphia with Downtown Cleveland . Center city Philadelphia is downtown philly and the surounding connected neighborhoods in the city. When Philadelphia says they have 80,000 people in center city it means downtown and the neighborhoods around downtown. Cleveland seems like it would be a more exciting area to live in also. I love all the construction going on in the city . The face of Cleveland is always changing. I dont here of any major projects going on in Philadelphia if there is any please post I would be interested.
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Cleveland has a lot more development plans than Philly due to it being younger, but Philadelphia's downtown is probably the 3rd or even 2nd best downtown due to your criteria.
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Cleveland has a lot more development plans than Philly due to it being younger, but Philadelphia's downtown is probably the 3rd or even 2nd best downtown due to your criteria.
New York
Chicago - Philly
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Boston
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Seattle
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Cleveland has a lot more development plans than Philly due to it being younger
I don't think Cleveland's "youth" has anything to do with the new huge amounts of development. You need to understand Cleveland's history to know how far the city fell, and what it's been doing to claw back. Plus, it's not as new as you may think (founded 1796 and peaked in population in the late 1940's) You have to go at least three inner ring suburbs to find any large available land for development. 95% of noted development is occurring in the city limits.
It can best be described as Cleveland having a clean slate, and all the old drawbacks being broken through or tossed aside. It's funny now with the new generation there a "can do" attitude, because they don't remember the hard times (race riots, river burning, manufacturing economy getting off-shored in a blink of the eye). They don't hold the negative stigmas of the older generations who what to hold on to what was. Cleveland's new BOOMING development is in a way filling in the gaps between the old bones, and it is occurring beautifully. You have gorgeous 1920's Playhouse Square theaters getting new neighbors of brand new CSU dorms built up to the street. You have old rapid train routes getting new stations and TOD development.
Not to quibble, but Chestnut from 9'th-12'th is the edge of gayborhood, but it not really sketchy at all. Many of the best new restaurants in the city opened in that area.
Kenneth Starr is a man who prosecuted Bill Clinton for sexual misconduct. Stephen Starr is a Philadelphia restaurateur. Neither person had much of anything to do with Milkboy: MilkBoy Steams Up Center City | Zagat
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Originally Posted by Kamms
There is no comparison between these two downtown areas. Center City has some sketchy areas (Chestnut 12th-9th Streets) and Market East (12-9th) but these areas are now also improving; Kenneth Starr restaurant at 9th/Chestnut (Milkboy) is a great new anchor-addition to the area. The residential population of Center City Philly is 90,000+ and growing; Cleveland's is 10,000 and I don't see any new construction rental or for-sale construction going in in downtown Cleveland (I'm not including the CSU project).
Not to quibble, but Chestnut from 9'th-12'th is the edge of gayborhood, but it not really sketchy at all. Many of the best new restaurants in the city opened in that area.
Kenneth Starr is a man who prosecuted Bill Clinton for sexual misconduct. Stephen Starr is a Philadelphia restaurateur. Neither person had much of anything to do with Milkboy: MilkBoy Steams Up Center City | Zagat
I meant Stephen Starr...sorry...and to quibble, you don't find 12th/Chestnut at night a tad bit sketchy...gayborhood and all? Read the crime blotter; police officer told me to be careful around 12th/Sansom...a short time later I encountered a flash-mob at 11th/Chestnut this summer...fortunately it was on its way east towards Old City... As far as the gayborhood goes, it's busy at night, but 12th/Chestnut is not the gayborhood...how 'bout the Tranny-flash mob on 12th Street last summer or the street hustlers and drug dealers standing out in the open in the ''safe'' gayborhood...or the Section 8 housing on Locust, 12th and 13th Streets? Chestnut from 12th east has lots of empty storefronts and I like the fact that Milkboy is a nice anchor to fill-in development west to 12th street. What new restaurant has opened in the 1100 block of Chestnut?
Not to quibble, but Chestnut from 9'th-12'th is the edge of gayborhood, but it not really sketchy at all. Many of the best new restaurants in the city opened in that area.
Kenneth Starr is a man who prosecuted Bill Clinton for sexual misconduct. Stephen Starr is a Philadelphia restaurateur. Neither person had much of anything to do with Milkboy: MilkBoy Steams Up Center City | Zagat
I would take it from 12th/Chestnut to 10th/Chestnut...hopefully these blocks fill-in, which I think they will. Market East has some nice redevelopment plans but we'll see how things go politically over there.
Not to quibble, but Chestnut from 9'th-12'th is the edge of gayborhood, but it not really sketchy at all. Many of the best new restaurants in the city opened in that area.
Kenneth Starr is a man who prosecuted Bill Clinton for sexual misconduct. Stephen Starr is a Philadelphia restaurateur. Neither person had much of anything to do with Milkboy: MilkBoy Steams Up Center City | Zagat
I am really glad to see the building at 12th/Spruce being renovated; can't think of buildings name but the architecture is amazing...it's at least 100 years old-now 8 high-end apartments with ground floor yoga and coffeehouse as ground-floor anchors.
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