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Boston should be at about ~75-80 +300' towers by 2017~2018 but beyond the current building cycle, they will soon be running out of space to build tall in the Back Bay/Downtown w/out getting into extremely politically derisive/complex/costly/problematic redevelopment for +500' towers (understating).
proposed, w/ action expected in the coming days/weeks;
1. Midwood Investment/Bromfield Street diagonally across from Millenium Tower likely to seek in range of 625-740 feet.
2. Harbor Garage/Don Chiofaro 52 stories approved at 600 feet/900,000 sq ft... BRA now doing an end around Chiofaro (Chiofaro want's two towers/1.3M sq ft... BRA now speaking with Chiofaro's partner; Prudential.
3. Equity Residential North Station/a.k.a. Garden Garage/Boston Garden Tower 4 was 46 stories; proposal now sits @ 44 stories 447 feet (after 2 height reductions, this project is going to be approved in the coming days/weeks)...
4. 380 Stewart Street/John Hancock Tower #3 26 stories 380 feet (more Copley Sq infill).
5. BACK BAY STATION 1.4M sq ft. Boston Properties has the contract expect two 400~550 foot towers.
6. South Bay Tower; hopeful we will see something very tall make an impact at this site in the next 5-10 years; (perhaps during a phase that sees many 180~260 foot appartment buildings in Roxbury, Fenway, Jamaica Plain, etc)...
7. Canvas 325' near Downtown Crossing.
2015-2018; approved, under-construction, topped, +/- cladding or completed;
1. 111 Federal Street/Winthrop Garage 740-780 feet (BRA gave tacit approval for "very tall..." currently weighing multiple redevelopment proposals)
2. 1 Dalton Street/Four Seasons 61 stories 755 Feet (under comstruction)
3. Millennium Tower 55 stories 685 feet (topped + cladding completed)
4. Copley Place Tower 52 stories 625~650 feet (w/ mechanical screen, in early construction phase)
5. SOUTH STATION 41 stories 621~650 feet (has BRA approval w/ many question marks regarding the timetable and track expansion)
6. Government Center (cylindrical) office tower 38 stories 528 feet + mechanical screen/crown spire
(has BRA approval to reach 600 feet. screen/spire could top at that height or go slightly over.
7. TD Garden Tower 1 (office tower) 33 stories 495 feet (BRA approved)
8. TD Garden Tower 2 (resident tower) 45 stories 486 feet (has BRA approval for this tower to reach 600 feet)
9. Government Center (residential) Tower 45 stories 480 feet [mechanical screen could put the roof at +540 feet (BRA approved)]
10. Avalon North Station/121 Nashua Street 38 stories 450 feet (topped w/cladding a few weeks away)
11. 40 Trinity Place 33 stories 400 feet at the roof (approved; construction to commence shortly)
12. The Point Fenway 30 stories 344~365 feet (under construction)
13. 45 Stewart St/AVA Theatre District 29 stories 336 feet (completed/occupancy near full)
14. Radian Boston 26 stories ~300 feet (completed/occupancy over 50%)
15-28 add another ~12 more highrises in the 240~320' range ranging from ready to go/under construction/occupancy.
Last edited by odurandina; 01-03-2016 at 06:54 PM..
Boston should be at about ~75-80 +300' towers by 2017~2018 but beyond the current building cycle, they will soon be running out of space to build tall in the Back Bay/Downtown w/out getting into extremely politically derisive/complex/costly/problematic redevelopment for +500' towers (understating).
proposed, w/ action expected in the coming days/weeks;
1. Midwood Investment/Bromfield Street diagonally across from Millenium Tower likely to seek in range of 625-740 feet.
2. Harbor Garage/Don Chiofaro 52 stories approved at 600 feet/900,000 sq ft... BRA now doing an end around Chiofaro (Chiofaro want's two towers/1.3M sq ft... BRA now speaking with Chiofaro's partner; Prudential.
3. Equity Residential North Station/a.k.a. Garden Garage/Boston Garden Tower 4 was 46 stories; proposal now sits @ 44 stories 447 feet (after 2 height reductions, this project is going to be approved in the coming days/weeks)...
4. 380 Stewart Street/John Hancock Tower #3 26 stories 380 feet (more Copley Sq infill).
5. BACK BAY STATION 1.4M sq ft. Boston Properties has the contract expect two 400~550 foot towers.
6. South Bay Tower; hopeful we will see something very tall make an impact at this site in the next 5-10 years; (perhaps during a phase that sees many 180~260 foot appartment buildings in Roxbury, Fenway, Jamaica Plain, etc)...
7. Canvas 325' near Downtown Crossing.
2015-2018; approved, under-construction, topped, +/- cladding or completed;
1. 111 Federal Street/Winthrop Garage 740-780 feet (BRA gave tacit approval for "very tall..." currently weighing multiple redevelopment proposals)
2. 1 Dalton Street/Four Seasons 61 stories 755 Feet (under comstruction)
3. Millennium Tower 55 stories 685 feet (topped + cladding completed)
4. Copley Place Tower 52 stories 625~650 feet (w/ mechanical screen, in early construction phase)
5. SOUTH STATION 41 stories 621~650 feet (has BRA approval w/ many question marks regarding the timetable and track expansion)
6. Government Center (cylindrical) office tower 38 stories 528 feet + mechanical screen/crown spire
(has BRA approval to reach 600 feet. screen/spire could top at that height or go slightly over.
7. TD Garden Tower 1 (office tower) 33 stories 495 feet (BRA approved)
8. TD Garden Tower 2 (resident tower) 45 stories 486 feet (has BRA approval for this tower to reach 600 feet)
9. Government Center (residential) Tower 45 stories 480 feet [mechanical screen could put the roof at +540 feet (BRA approved)]
10. Avalon North Station/121 Nashua Street 38 stories 450 feet (topped w/cladding a few weeks away)
11. 40 Trinity Place 33 stories 400 feet at the roof (approved; construction to commence shortly)
12. The Point Fenway 30 stories 344~365 feet (under construction)
13. 45 Stewart St/AVA Theatre District 29 stories 336 feet (completed/occupancy near full)
14. Radian Boston 26 stories ~300 feet (completed/occupancy over 50%)
15-28 add another ~12 more highrises in the 240~320' range ranging from ready to go/under construction/occupancy.
That is very ambitious since there is currently 43 skycrapers and 3 under construction. In most cities all proposed projects dont get built.
Not really. Perhaps if you only focus on the Southside but even there you will find plenty of development in high-rises that are much taller than what you will get in DC. Also, Chicago's core is much larger than DC, is it not?
We would have to map it out. I don't think the urban core of any city is larger than DC except NYC by area squared if we consider the development zones. Also, are we talking about all buildings being highrise's or just a few? I'm talking about every building. Most cities build a couple highrise's outside downtown across the nation, however, every building in the neighborhood isn't. Because DC has height limits, we are building entire neighborhoods of highrise's because we really have no choice. This level of development is moving in all directions because we can't build taller downtown to absorb the growth.
DC's core is 20 sq. miles (Columbia Heights/Petworth to the river and Foggy Bottom to the river. That footprint is very similar to the island of Manhattan. The development zone south of I-395 to the river is the biggest factor in this. Most cities are building but it's infill. DC is building new neighborhoods on land that was empty from scratch. Most of what you know to be DC's urban core is not the defining factor in my statements. It's what is moving in the pipeline that I'm talking about which, as of now, is empty waste land. That will change in the next decade. I can't think of another city that has land to develop like DC next to downtown except LA, however, I don't know if LA intends to redevelopment their warehouses by downtown.
Last edited by MDAllstar; 01-03-2016 at 11:22 PM..
how does DC end up with more than Chicago with governmental buildings excluded???
To answer this question, two reasons:
1) DC is more white-collar than Chicago from an economic perspective. Higher intensity of office-using jobs in industries that have higher square-feet-per-employee set-ups, such as law firms and consulting.
2) The federal government leases millions of square feet in non-government buildings, so even if you take out government-owned properties, you'll still be left with a huge government footprint.
We would have to map it out. I don't think the urban core of any city is larger than DC except NYC by area squared if we consider the development zones. Also, are we talking about all buildings being highrise's or just a few? I'm talking about every building. Most cities build a couple highrise's outside downtown across the nation, however, every building in the neighborhood isn't. Because DC has height limits, we are building entire neighborhoods of highrise's because we really have no choice. This level of development is moving in all directions because we can't build taller downtown to absorb the growth.
DC's core is 20 sq. miles (Columbia Heights/Petworth to the river and Foggy Bottom to the river. That footprint is very similar to the island of Manhattan. The development zone south of I-395 to the river is the biggest factor in this. Most cities are building but it's infill. DC is building new neighborhoods on land that was empty from scratch. Most of what you know to be DC's urban core is not the defining factor in my statements. It's what is moving in the pipeline that I'm talking about which, as of now, is empty waste land. That will change in the next decade. I can't think of another city that has land to develop like DC next to downtown except LA, however, I don't know if LA intends to redevelopment their warehouses by downtown.
Right and the level of development of mid and high-rises are starting to stretch to the South of the loop in Chicago, even more to the North,and even to the West. Chicago has much more potential to have a large urban area of nothing but high-rise and mid rise development than DC. Don't get me wrong, what is happening here in DC is impressive. But not that much different than other urban cities.
Right and the level of development of mid and high-rises are starting to stretch to the South of the loop in Chicago, even more to the North,and even to the West. Chicago has much more potential to have a large urban area of nothing but high-rise and mid rise development than DC. Don't get me wrong, what is happening here in DC is impressive. But not that much different than other urban cities.
I agree Chicago has a lot of land to redevelop, but is that land in the planning to do so? These area's west of the loop are ripe for redevelopment, but I don't know if Chicago plans to do that to these area's. That is really what I mean. Just because the land is there doesn't mean the zoning will be changed and industrial area's will be redeveloped. Do you know if that is the plan for these areas?
Right and the level of development of mid and high-rises are starting to stretch to the South of the loop in Chicago, even more to the North,and even to the West. Chicago has much more potential to have a large urban area of nothing but high-rise and mid rise development than DC. Don't get me wrong, what is happening here in DC is impressive. But not that much different than other urban cities.
To get a 17 sq. mile core area for Chicago, the following boundaries could be used:
Northern: Belmont Avenue
Southern Boundary: 31st. Street
Western Boundary: Ashland Avenue
Eastern Boundary: Lake Michigan
Do you know what is planned for this footprint? Are the industrial areas going to be redeveloped?
I agree Chicago has a lot of land to redevelop, but is that land in the planning to do so? These area's west of the loop are ripe for redevelopment, but I don't know if Chicago plans to do that to these area's. That is really what I mean. Just because the land is there doesn't mean the zoning will be changed and industrial area's will be redeveloped. Do you know if that is the plan for these areas?
Tons of new retail and now some apartments are going up or set to go up between the first and second links, and the third link is a bit to the south of where most current activity is.
The huge swaths west of the Kennedy have been actively developing with thousands of units for 15+ years now. When I moved here Greektown was in the middle of a dumpy area and the west loop had parking lots galore and run down light industry. Now it's dozens upon dozens of mid-rises. The South Loop was in almost worse condition, and now it's dozens of highrises and activity going on all over. I was just down there visiting friends and there are cranes and construction all over. I wasn't aware it had picked up there so much after the pause from 2009-2012.
Those areas you pointed out have activity, but all three of your links are really just parts of one pocket of area between the river and the expressway. Most of the activity the past 15-20 years has taken place in areas directly to the east, west and north, but most development articles lately have pointed out that pocket is starting to get a lot of growth now, naturally.
To get a 17 sq. mile core area for Chicago, the following boundaries could be used:
Northern: Belmont Avenue
Southern Boundary: 31st. Street
Western Boundary: Ashland Avenue
Eastern Boundary: Lake Michigan
Do you know what is planned for this footprint? Are the industrial areas going to be redeveloped?
Most of it that's not already mature dense areas are either being highly developed now, such as the south loop, west loop and the downtown core, has small infill/redevelopment projects going on in the north and west, or is fairly stagnant in the south.
The main largescale areas for redevelopment are the
1) Areas south of the Sears Tower
2) Areas down south of I-55 into Bronzeville
3) Industrial areas around Goose Island and the Clyborn development corridor
4) Old areas around Cabrini.
There are plans for most of them. The one that will take the longest is the areas down between I-55 and 31st street and east of I-90/94.
1) Large open areas south of sears tower that use to be railroad yards and have very difficult access due to current train tracks (commuter trains). There is certainly activity going on there, and a huge development was announced recently to begin in 2016. Movement in this area (the first in decades) started with highrise construction, the big Roosevelt Collection outdoor mall/movie theatre and a Target a few years ago. This is much larger though, centered on a 6.5 acre site right on the river with thousands of units, and another huge development down on the south side of Roosevelt:
2) This area has the least potential at the moment. There are plans for some of the lots where they took down public housing units, but most activity is to the west and north of here.
3) This area is undergoing a lot of change now that the steel site has fully closed down and Goose Island has a master plan. It's feeling the push as well from the development going up all around Clyborn and the river near North Ave. Sterling Bay now owns 40 acres of the recently torn down industrial areas directly bordering Lincoln Park - this will be the largest scale redevelopment in decades in this area of town. New City just opened with around 400,000 square feet of retail and restaurants, a few new residential highrises are in the area and there's a critical mass of new retail/apartments going up or getting financing.
4) The areas around Cabrini are cleared and around a dozen mid-rises have gone up the past 5-10 years. There is a master plan for this area that's been released, and the degree of other private development is inching closer and closer to the old Cabrini footprint. Atrium redevelopment is the largest plans in the downtown area in quite awhile. They're taking down the old Atrium Village now.
Most of it that's not already mature dense areas are either being highly developed now, such as the south loop, west loop and the downtown core, has small infill/redevelopment projects going on in the north and west, or is fairly stagnant in the south.
The main largescale areas for redevelopment are the
1) Areas south of the Sears Tower
2) Areas down south of I-55 into Bronzeville
3) Industrial areas around Goose Island and the Clyborn development corridor
4) Old areas around Cabrini.
There are plans for most of them. The one that will take the longest is the areas down between I-55 and 31st street and east of I-90/94.
1) Large open areas south of sears tower that use to be railroad yards and have very difficult access due to current train tracks (commuter trains). There is certainly activity going on there, and a huge development was announced recently to begin in 2016. Movement in this area (the first in decades) started with highrise construction, the big Roosevelt Collection outdoor mall/movie theatre and a Target a few years ago. This is much larger though, centered on a 6.5 acre site right on the river with thousands of units, and another huge development down on the south side of Roosevelt:
2) This area has the least potential at the moment. There are plans for some of the lots where they took down public housing units, but most activity is to the west and north of here.
3) This area is undergoing a lot of change now that the steel site has fully closed down and Goose Island has a master plan. It's feeling the push as well from the development going up all around Clyborn and the river near North Ave. Sterling Bay now owns 40 acres of the recently torn down industrial areas directly bordering Lincoln Park - this will be the largest scale redevelopment in decades in this area of town. New City just opened with around 400,000 square feet of retail and restaurants, a few new residential highrises are in the area and there's a critical mass of new retail/apartments going up or getting financing.
4) The areas around Cabrini are cleared and around a dozen mid-rises have gone up the past 5-10 years. There is a master plan for this area that's been released, and the degree of other private development is inching closer and closer to the old Cabrini footprint. Atrium redevelopment is the largest plans in the downtown area in quite awhile. They're taking down the old Atrium Village now.
Thanks! What do you think the timeline for build out of this whole area will be? I think D.C. will reach build out of the core by 2030 adding about 165,000 people to the core 17 sq. mile's by then through new development. After that, only redevelopment will be possible versus green field development.
Last edited by MDAllstar; 01-04-2016 at 12:52 PM..
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What do you think the timeline for build out of this whole area will be? I think D.C. will reach build out of the core by 2030 adding about 165,000 people to the core 17 sq. mile's by then through new development. After that, only redevelopment will be possible versus green field development.
