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As far as 'class' goes, that's hard to quantify but sometimes its associated with the concentration of wealth and the Oakland Hills has many more neighborhoods that could be considered wealthy than the entire city of Cambridge:
All Cambridge Neighborhoods by Average Household Income, 2009 by Onboard LLC
Cambridge-West Cambridge $157,583
Cambridge-Agassiz $101,349
Cambridge-Neighborhood Nine $101,339
Cambridge Highlands $83,580
Cambridge-Mid-Cambridge $79,144
Cambridge-North Cambridge $79,288
Cambridge-Strawberry Hill $75,991
Cambridge-East Cambridge $69,215
Cambridge-Cambridgeport $68,339
Cambridge-Wellington-Harrington $60,564
Cambridge-Riverside $59,649
Cambridge-Area 4 No Data
Cambridge-MIT No Data
I really don't feel like continuing this...I think you get my point. This isn't to say the wealthiest in Oakland aren't wealthier than those in Cambridge...but you're grossly overstating the wealth of these neighborhoods.
As far as 'class' goes, that's hard to quantify but sometimes its associated with the concentration of wealth and the Oakland Hills has many more neighborhoods that could be considered wealthy than the entire city of Cambridge:
All Cambridge Neighborhoods by Average Household Income, 2009 by Onboard LLC
Cambridge-West Cambridge $157,583
Cambridge-Agassiz $101,349
Cambridge-Neighborhood Nine $101,339
Cambridge Highlands $83,580
Cambridge-Mid-Cambridge $79,144
Cambridge-North Cambridge $79,288
Cambridge-Strawberry Hill $75,991
Cambridge-East Cambridge $69,215
Cambridge-Cambridgeport $68,339
Cambridge-Wellington-Harrington $60,564
Cambridge-Riverside $59,649
Cambridge-Area 4 No Data
Cambridge-MIT No Data
Hilarious how people get up in arms and just nasty(IE "Money doesnt buy class") when their preconcieved notions are debunked by facts. *yawns*
And I did Cambridge a favor by not including Piedmont which is technically in the Oakland Hills as well. Otherwise the list would have looked like this:
Average Family Income, 2009 by Onboard LLC Piedmont-Tyson Lake $460,133
Piedmont-Saint James $365,768
Piedmont-Piedmont Estates $355,862 Los Angeles-Bel Air $306,958
Piedmont-Upper Piedmont $303,711
Piedmont-Crocker Park $242,603
Oakland-Hiller Highlands/ Panoramic Hill $239,554
Piedmont-Echo Canyon $238,378
Piedmont-Piedmont Hills $215,221
Oakland-Claremont $209,361
Oakland-Piedmont Pines $201,150
Piedmont-Piedmont Pines $195,908
Oakland-Montclair $190,041 San Francisco-Pacific Heights $185,865
Oakland-Crocker Highlands $184,125
Piedmont-Piedmont Civic Center $180,046
Oakland-Upper Rockridge $167,153
Oakland-Forestland $164,097
Oakland-Rockridge $148,127
Oakland-Glen Highlands $147,576
Oakand-Sheffield Village $139,264
Oakland-Trestle Glen $135,495
Oakland-Oakmore $129,452
Oakland-Caballo Hills $125,920
Oakland-Leona Heights $125,920
Oakland-Skyline-Hillcrest Estates $125,920
Oakland-Chabot Park $123,738
Oakland-Redwood Heights $116,144
Oakland-Crestmont/ Woodminster $110,923
Oakland-Sequoyah $98,511
Oakland-Lincoln Highlands $96,899
Oakland-Glenview $95,267
Oakland-Lakeshore $86,072
Oakland-Upper Dimond $73,782
Read 'em and weep.
We often speak of 2 Oaklands because on the one hand there is the area of town that has crime, but you drive up a few hundred feet in elevation and suddenly Oakland is another world altogether.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tmac9wr
As they say: you can't buy class.
I'll take 50,000 resident professionals over 50,000 students when it comes to which is probably classier--I mean keg parties and b-theater is not my idea of class really.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kidphilly
And just curious; how would the bottom of your "class" scale compare between the two?
I havent a clue what your asking.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alberta Born
Classic. I use internet facts to make my case (crime index more than twice the national average, murder rate over 20 per 100k, no world-renowned universities), and 18Montclair responds with internet facts of his own.
Hahaha...Yes I know it must offend your sensibilities to read that Oakland has areas such as the ones described above but sometimes we can only take truth in small doses.
Oakland has a high crime rate, but at least a third of the city is quite posh-you probably didnt know that. Well, now you do.
Hilarious how people get up in arms and just nasty(IE "Money doesnt buy class") when their preconcieved notions are debunked by facts. *yawns*
And I did Cambridge a favor by not including Piedmont which is technically in the Oakland Hills as well. Otherwise the list would have looked like this:
Average Family Income, 2009 by Onboard LLC Piedmont-Tyson Lake $460,133
Piedmont-Saint James $365,768
Piedmont-Piedmont Estates $355,862 Los Angeles-Bel Air $306,958
Piedmont-Upper Piedmont $303,711
Piedmont-Crocker Park $242,603
Oakland-Hiller Highlands/ Panoramic Hill $239,554
Piedmont-Echo Canyon $238,378
Piedmont-Piedmont Hills $215,221
Oakland-Claremont $209,361
Oakland-Piedmont Pines $201,150
Piedmont-Piedmont Pines $195,908
Oakland-Montclair $190,041 San Francisco-Pacific Heights $185,865
Oakland-Crocker Highlands $184,125
Piedmont-Piedmont Civic Center $180,046
Oakland-Upper Rockridge $167,153
Oakland-Forestland $164,097
Oakland-Rockridge $148,127
Oakland-Glen Highlands $147,576
Oakand-Sheffield Village $139,264
Oakland-Trestle Glen $135,495
Oakland-Oakmore $129,452
Oakland-Caballo Hills $125,920
Oakland-Leona Heights $125,920
Oakland-Skyline-Hillcrest Estates $125,920
Oakland-Chabot Park $123,738
Oakland-Redwood Heights $116,144
Oakland-Crestmont/ Woodminster $110,923
Oakland-Sequoyah $98,511
Oakland-Lincoln Highlands $96,899
Oakland-Glenview $95,267
Oakland-Lakeshore $86,072
Oakland-Upper Dimond $73,782
Read 'em and weep.
We often speak of 2 Oaklands because on the one hand there is the area of town that has crime, but you drive up a few hundred feet in elevation and suddenly Oakland is another world altogether.
I'll take 50,000 resident professionals over 50,000 students when it comes to which is probably classier--I mean keg parties and b-theater is not my idea of class really.
Haha really dude? You're doing a great job showing how truly classy you are. I wasn't suggesting that Oakland doesn't have its share of great people. I'd be willing to bet there are some fantastic people in Oakland. While there are many great people there, I'm sure Cambridge has a ton of scumbags too--as does every city. I was criticizing your attempt to break down "class" into a units-per-dollar measurement, which is ironically the definition of being classless.
Your attempt to insult all the "keg crazy" kids at (trying not to laugh) Harvard and MIT, proves my point more.
Quote:
I havent a clue what your asking.
I'm going to take a wild guess and assume he's talking about the fact that you're only painting one small side of Oakland. A former coworker spent a summer with his girlfriend in Oakland and he basically said the nice parts are really nice, and the bad parts are really bad. I don't think anyone is denying that Oakland has some fantastic parts...but you're being completely ignorant to the fact that there's a huge part of Oakland that is in horrid condition.
Things like this are what annoys people about Bay Area posters. You're willing to concede absolutely nothing and pretend Oakland is some affluent playground.
You hear some guy spraying a Mac-10 and you say "Oh honey, I think an organic wood pecker landed on our money tree and is having a peck! How quaintly Californian!" Na dude, someone just got blasted...you guys should get on that.
Oakland had more murders in 2010 than Cambridge had collectively since 1960....and that was a good year for Oakland. And don't construe this as me bashing Oakland, because it's not. I don't wish any bad on the city, and hope it can corral its crime problem...but at the same time, you need to be able to accept that there's a lot of problems in the city. You can't continue to throw out (incredibly inflated) income statistics and pretend the good for some erases the bad for many.
Why weep? Cambridge has a higher median income than Oakland. Why does Oakland having a huge class disparity help it much? I don't see why Oakland having lots of rich neighborhoods makes it better.
Why weep? Cambridge has a higher median income than Oakland. Why does Oakland having a huge class disparity help it much? I don't see why Oakland having lots of rich neighborhoods makes it better.
I guess you haven't dealt with our friend Montclair too often. In the past, he/she's made attempts to say wealthier immigrants are better for diversity than working class immigrants, solely due to the wealth-factor.
Hey, write a letter to Onboard Informatics LLC. They have no reason to make up average income stats.
It seems like someone is offended at the thought that in this category, Oakland actually wins. LOL.
Quote:
Haha really dude? You're doing a great job showing how truly classy you are.
I was responding to Alberta Born's comment, that none of the 'classy' East Coasters cared to clarify: Cambridge is a clean, safe, classy city.
How do we usually define class? By affluence and educational attainment.
And spare me your judgement about my personal class level.
Quote:
but you're being completely ignorant to the fact that there's a huge part of Oakland that is in horrid condition.
Never denied that, but Oakland is not like Detroit or Camden or any of those other Eastern places known for their decrepitude. We dont have scores of public housing tenements, we dont have tons of abandoned buildings.
Oakland has a vibrant downtown, excellent restaurants, a thriving and growing arts scene and so on.
Furthermore, I was specifically responding to this post that the rest of you apparently are in total agreement with: Oakland has a crime rate more than twice the national average, and a murder rate befitting a city in Central America or Africa (over 20/100k/year). It lacks any world class universities, or world famous attractions. The only thing it really has going for it is the mild climate.
Trust me, 10,000 households earning $200,000+ a year and 35,000 households earning $100,000+ a year dont choose to live in Oakland over suburbia or SF simply because of a mild climate.
And both of those figures dwarf Cambridge as they should because Oakland is a much larger city with more going on at any income level.
I guess you haven't dealt with our friend Montclair too often. In the past, he/she's made attempts to say wealthier immigrants are better for diversity than working class immigrants, solely due to the wealth-factor.
Speaking of visible minorities, does Cambridge or Boston for that matter have any areas like this: Chabot Park Average Household Income: $123,738
Why weep? Cambridge has a higher median income than Oakland. Why does Oakland having a huge class disparity help it much? I don't see why Oakland having lots of rich neighborhoods makes it better.
No, the fact that Oakland has way more of every kind of neighborhood contributes to a definite advantage over Cambridge.
Its not my fault that a tiny inner ring suburb is being compared to a city that is 4 times larger and worlds more diverse.
Hey, write a letter to Onboard Informatics LLC. They have no reason to make up average income stats.
It seems like someone is offended at the thought that in this category, Oakland actually wins. LOL.
Not at all. In fact, I've said several times that Oakland's wealthy are wealthier than Cambridge's.
Quote:
I was responding to Alberta Born's comment
Really? I guess you can see why I would be confused since you had a direct quote from me, and then put your response directly below it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 18Montclair
Quote:
Originally Posted by tmac9wr
As they say: you can't buy class.
I'll take 50,000 resident professionals over 50,000 students when it comes to which is probably classier--I mean keg parties and b-theater is not my idea of class really.
Quote:
How do we usually define class? By affluence and educational attainment.
I totally disagree. Class is dependent on character, not on income.
Quote:
And spare me your judgement about my personal class level.
Just calling it as I see it. You're extremely transparent about anything involving money.
Quote:
Never denied that, but Oakland is not like Detroit or Camden or any of those other Eastern places known for their decrepitude. We dont have scores of public housing tenements, we dont have tons of abandoned buildings.
Umm...what's your point? You're not quite as bad as the absolute worst? Huge win. The only problem is we're not comparing Oakland to Detroit or Camden. We're comparing it to Cambridge.
Quote:
Oakland has a vibrant downtown, excellent restaurants, a thriving and growing arts scene and so on.
As does Cambridge...though it's more reliant on a series of squares rather than a single downtown.
Quote:
Furthermore, I was specifically responding to this post that the rest of you apparently are in total agreement with: Oakland has a crime rate more than twice the national average, and a murder rate befitting a city in Central America or Africa (over 20/100k/year).
Silence doesn't mean agreement...this is City-Data man, even on a single thread you will see several isolated conversations. Just because people don't comment on something outrageous, doesn't mean they're in agreement with what the other person said. You should know that by now. I don't think Oakland is as bad as many places in Latin America, and definitely not Africa...though--and I think you'll be happy to hear this since you have a past here--it has a considerably higher homicide rate than São Paulo, whose crime drop has been monumental, going from 55 homicides per 100k in 2001 to 12 per 100k in 2010. A murder rate lower than Chicago and Atlanta, and equal to Dallas and Houston.
Quote:
It lacks any world class universities, or world famous attractions. The only thing it really has going for it is the mild climate.
It doesn't have any world class universities or world famous attractions...but then again most places don't. I don't agree that the only thing it has going for it is a mild climate. The geographic layout of Oakland, and the Bay Area as a whole, is fantastic.
Therefore I won't respond to some of the follow up comments you made since there's really no point.
The fact is--whether you're willing to admit it or not--you have been totally ignoring the bad side of Oakland in this comparison, and you've been consistently painting Cambridge as some frat-boy college town...which it absolutely isn't. I get you've got hometown pride, and you're borderline delusional when you're speaking about your home...but still man, ease up a bit.
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