Which City Has a More Black-Professional Class? DC or Atlanta? (map, populations)
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I don’t think he/she is talking about wealth. I think he/she is talking about urban black communities. Middle class black neighborhoods with black people and black stores and black entertainment venues filled with majority black people. I can’t say I’m aware of a growing urban black neighborhood in Atlanta proper. Do you know of any? The booming neighborhoods aren’t attracting black people.
The only area I’d consider a “black urban neighborhood” is West End and the surrounding AUC area. It still needs a ton more apartments to densify it but the transit and retail infrastructure is there and rents are relatively low compared to the east side. It’s nothing like the black urban hoods in DC though. I believe this decade will be one for the west and south side neighborhoods and I really hope younger black Atlantans take advantage of it. We should strive to keep a significant presence in the city even as it becomes more diverse and urban.
Even neighborhoods that have been and are still majority black are skyrocketing in prices due to public investments like MARTA, the Beltline, and numerous new parks, bike lanes, and pedestrian improvements throughout the city. These aren’t things that should only be desirable to white people. When it comes to increased private development, it’s because the income of these neighborhoods are rising to levels that make development profitable.
Longtime Black residents have been wanting and asking for basic improvements in their neighborhoods for years, but they are only now getting them since the city can see increased tax revenue on the horizon due to impending gentrification.
Quote:
For example, the city of South Fulton has a ton of black middle class families with disposable incomes in newer subdivisions across the 100,000 people city. If these people moved to SW Atlanta it’d have the density and wealth to thrive as a black hub but many chose to move here to get away from the “hood” (whether they’re locals or transplants). I understand those with families wanted space and a lot of the neighborhoods in suburban Atlanta are beautiful but the mindsets behind the decisions to move here that I hear from many transplants is that they want to get away from poorer black neighborhoods now that they’ve “made it”. I’m fine with that personal decision but to then go on and criticize any new development in the city and scream at those who take advantage of it just seems hypocritical to me. If you want Atlanta to stay black, actually invest in the city. There are still inexpensive beautiful properties in places like Bankhead, Chosewood Park, Summerhill, Peoplestown, Oakland City, and Westview that other groups are taking advantage of.
For the most part, if Black folks in metro Atlanta are going to drop a certain amount on a house, they don't want to deal with the nuisances that come along with living in the city also. They are perfectly fine with their own suburban municipality of South Fulton that they can politically control without a Buckhead Coalition or Republican-controlled state legislature giving them grief over certain things. Also when it comes to amenities, developers aren't going to give that much consideration to municipal boundaries; they'll look at population and disposable income within a certain radius and build amenities according to demand. But we know that, for the most part, it's not getting much better than the sort of mid-tier retailers that you see along Camp Creek.
As far as the criticism of new development in the city by suburbanites, I'm sure they're only making the same observations as everyone else: who are all the folks who can afford to live in those expensive new properties, and why are they dropping the same amount on rent as they could two mortgages?
Longtime Black residents have been wanting and asking for basic improvements in their neighborhoods for years, but they are only now getting them since the city can see increased tax revenue on the horizon due to impending gentrification.
For the most part, if Black folks in metro Atlanta are going to drop a certain amount on a house, they don't want to deal with the nuisances that come along with living in the city also. They are perfectly fine with their own suburban municipality of South Fulton that they can politically control without a Buckhead Coalition or Republican-controlled state legislature giving them grief over certain things. Also when it comes to amenities, developers aren't going to give that much consideration to municipal boundaries; they'll look at population and disposable income within a certain radius and build amenities according to demand. But we know that, for the most part, it's not getting much better than the sort of mid-tier retailers that you see along Camp Creek.
As far as the criticism of new development in the city by suburbanites, I'm sure they're only making the same observations as everyone else: who are all the folks who can afford to live in those expensive new properties, and why are they dropping the same amount on rent as they could two mortgages?
The Beltline in particular began planning and construction long before much private investment happened at all and many of the intown neighborhoods are what they are today because of the Beltline. If black people simply thinking suburbs are better is the case, I’ll concede my argument. Personally though, I find little value in far flung suburbs with far flung amenities and retail. I don’t find it comforting to have to drive everywhere and deal with nightmarish traffic and congestion and I personally think more black people would live better lives in the transit connected city with world class parks, recreational amenities, and retail within walking distance. But that’s just me.
The Beltline in particular began planning and construction long before much private investment happened at all and many of the intown neighborhoods are what they are today because of the Beltline. If black people simply thinking suburbs are better is the case, I’ll concede my argument. Personally though, I find little value in far flung suburbs with far flung amenities and retail. I don’t find it comforting to have to drive everywhere and deal with nightmarish traffic and congestion and I personally think more black people would live better lives in the transit connected city with world class parks, recreational amenities, and retail within walking distance. But that’s just me.
I think it’s important to keep the reasons black people move to southern cities like Atlanta, Houston, and Dallas etc. in perspective. Black people move to southern cities to escape the expensive, high density, crowded, urban, walkable, fast paced lifestyle in the cities up north. The things that attract people south is not living in the city. If that was something they desired, they probably would not have moved to the south to begin with.
Then you have other black people in the south moving to cities in the south from smaller southern cities or rural areas and they have never experienced an urban lifestyle and don’t care to. Usually, black people don’t leave a city like DC, Chicago, or NYC etc. expecting Atlanta, Houston, or Dallas to be similar. They move south for cheaper, less expensive, larger housing, with land and space in a suburban setting which is the opposite of where they are coming from. The black gentrifier is someone that desires a smaller home in a dense environment which is the opposite of why people move to Atlanta.
Location: That star on your map in the middle of the East Coast, DMV
8,129 posts, read 7,575,946 times
Reputation: 5796
Quote:
Originally Posted by MDAllstar
I think it’s important to keep the reasons black people move to southern cities like Atlanta, Houston, and Dallas etc. in perspective. Black people move to southern cities to escape the expensive, high density, crowded, urban, walkable, fast paced lifestyle in the cities up north. The things that attract people south is not living in the city. If that was something they desired, they probably would not have moved to the south to begin with.
Then you have other black people in the south moving to cities in the south from smaller southern cities or rural areas and they have never experienced an urban lifestyle and don’t care to. Usually, black people don’t leave a city like DC, Chicago, or NYC etc. expecting Atlanta, Houston, or Dallas to be similar. They move south for cheaper, less expensive, larger housing, with land and space in a suburban setting which is the opposite of where they are coming from. The black gentrifier is someone that desires a smaller home in a dense environment which is the opposite of why people move to Atlanta.
This is 100% fact. Hence the Black "urban" professional preferring to move to a DC than an Atlanta. Of all the people I've known to leave DC for Atlanta, it was to "get away" from it all, or they "felt more free spirited" to live how they wanted or start their business, or they just wanted a change of pace/scenery without sacrificing too much and ATL was their preferred destination.
I lived a year in Atlanta, and probably visited enough times to total close to two years of my life. It's come a long way, and will continue to be the Black Mecca that it is, but it's still not as polished as DC with the professional Black class. The cities Black culture and influence is same tier, but DC is definitely the leader in terms of the Black professional class. I just realized the OP made this about PG vs Dekalb county which again, Dekalb has Black professionals by comparison than most areas in the US, but PG definitely wins this. Something like 5-8 of the nation's wealthiest Black neighborhoods are in Prince George's County, MD with none from Dekalb in the top 10.
This is 100% fact. Hence the Black "urban" professional preferring to move to a DC than an Atlanta. Of all the people I've known to leave DC for Atlanta, it was to "get away" from it all, or they "felt more free spirited" to live how they wanted or start their business, or they just wanted a change of pace/scenery without sacrificing too much and ATL was their preferred destination.
I lived a year in Atlanta, and probably visited enough times to total close to two years of my life. It's come a long way, and will continue to be the Black Mecca that it is, but it's still not as polished as DC with the professional Black class. The cities Black culture and influence is same tier, but DC is definitely the leader in terms of the Black professional class. I just realized the OP made this about PG vs Dekalb county which again, Dekalb has Black professionals by comparison than most areas in the US, but PG definitely wins this. Something like 5-8 of the nation's wealthiest Black neighborhoods are in Prince George's County, MD with none from Dekalb in the top 10.
Yes, I think it’s important for people to realize that the black urban class doesn’t move south for the most part. The black gentrifier actually wants a crowded environment and doesn’t mind difficultly parking or not owning a car at all. Consequently, these are the reasons people praise southern cities. It’s an oxymoron.
Even those black people that can’t afford DC try to live near a metro station in Maryland or Virginia that is close to the DC line so they can get into the city as easily as possible either by train or uber.
The Beltline in particular began planning and construction long before much private investment happened at all and many of the intown neighborhoods are what they are today because of the Beltline. If black people simply thinking suburbs are better is the case, I’ll concede my argument. Personally though, I find little value in far flung suburbs with far flung amenities and retail. I don’t find it comforting to have to drive everywhere and deal with nightmarish traffic and congestion and I personally think more black people would live better lives in the transit connected city with world class parks, recreational amenities, and retail within walking distance. But that’s just me.
Folks in the 'burbs can walk to some things (parks, recreational amenities) and aren't finding themselves in a traffic jam every time they hop in the car to run errands, and plenty of folks who live in the city still utilize their cars. When I lived in Roswell, I had pretty quick access to downtown Roswell, Big Creek Greenway, Chattahoochee River National Recreation Area, retail in Alpharetta, etc., plus I was much closer to my job at the time in Cumming than I would have been had I lived in the city. You seem to be disregarding the fact that not everyone works in the city and many people both live and work in the suburban areas where they live. And the parents of school-age children are more than likely aware of the cheating scandal in APS from a few years back as well as the overall ranking and such of schools.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MDAllstar
I think it’s important to keep the reasons black people move to southern cities like Atlanta, Houston, and Dallas etc. in perspective. Black people move to southern cities to escape the expensive, high density, crowded, urban, walkable, fast paced lifestyle in the cities up north. The things that attract people south is not living in the city. If that was something they desired, they probably would not have moved to the south to begin with.
Then you have other black people in the south moving to cities in the south from smaller southern cities or rural areas and they have never experienced an urban lifestyle and don’t care to. Usually, black people don’t leave a city like DC, Chicago, or NYC etc. expecting Atlanta, Houston, or Dallas to be similar. They move south for cheaper, less expensive, larger housing, with land and space in a suburban setting which is the opposite of where they are coming from. The black gentrifier is someone that desires a smaller home in a dense environment which is the opposite of why people move to Atlanta.
Bingo. DC is one of the nation's most classically urban cities and living within the city itself has a certain cachet, even among Black transplants, which isn't the case for Atlanta. And although Atlanta isn't as cheap as it used to be, it's still noticeably cheaper than the major urban centers with a lot more choices for suburban living for Black folks who want to live in places with a sizable concentration of existing Black residents.
Atlanta really does have a lot of every type of Black crowd you could want, but obviously those are the types who are the "loudest," especially in a city as entertainment-driven as Atlanta, so they'll be noticed much quicker. It takes time to get settled and establish a social circle in any city so it's probably good she's moving back. And maybe folks like her should realize that if members of the LGBT community weren't ostracized by so many of their families in other cities, they wouldn't feel the need to flock to Atlanta to be themselves.
I've never been one to be bothered by conspicuous consumption though or "faking it until you make it" because I don't care to be in other people's business to that much, and if I feel like they might be involved in some shady stuff to get what they've got, I know how to stay away.
I just had a conversation with a friend who moved from Bmore to ATL on an impulse-Shes moving back ASAP. Her read is Atlanta is full of scammer and folks lacking substance she HATES it . She said it has the pull but there’s too many people faking it until they make it. Now granted this is a “spiritual” person who decried the “consipivuous consumption” and “lack of a tribe” so I do take her words with a grain of salt..
BUT-I can’t lie-this has been the common refrain from people who’ve moved to Atlanta and for that reason I tend to go with DC in terms of a black professional class. That complaint about Atlanta is just that common. Great place to buy a home and party but the dominant culture is sometimes reported to be scam city, “LGBTQ and plastic”-her words.
But I certainly am aware Atlanta has at least the 2/3rd largest black professional class of anywhere. Just don’t think it moves like DC.
I've heard these things about Atlanta several times before and there's no shortage of those Anti-Atlanta videos on youtube as well. Me and my wife's experience living in Atlanta were completely DIFFERENT than your friend.
Her first mistake was moving to Atlanta on impulse. Atlanta has wayyyyyyy too many people moving there on impulse and this is simply based off hype. Some of these people(most are very young) think as soon as they touchdown in Atlanta, the red carpets roll out and the city should shower you with roses. Tons of dreamers move to Atlanta expecting to see an image of the city similar to a rap video or Real housewives of Atlanta. They come with preconceived notions of the city and when they see a couple of those stereotypes in the city then it just further confirms those things for them.
The thing is a lot of young Black folks move to these cities and hit social scenes that cater to that fake it to you make it demographic. They hit up the clubs/popular restaurants/bars and think that's the pinnacle of Atlanta culture. It's so much more to Atlanta than that but lots of younger transplants don't go beyond that. Which says a lot more about that person and not the city they chose to move to on impulse.
And mind you me and my Wife was involved in the entertainment industry in Atlanta. We specifically moved to Atlanta for that and knew how to maneuver. In a industry that's filled to the brim with those types we met quite a few genuine real people that were still cool with to this day. That looked out for us when they found out we just moved to the city. I also found Atlanta to be one of the best cities for Black people to find your tribe. Funny you say she's one of the free spirited type when Atlanta has a lot of free spirit Black folks all over the city. She could have easily went to Little 5 Points and hit up Sevananda and linked up with some brothas and sistas on that level. It's easy to avoid the crowd she detest. I tell people all the time despite what people see on tv Atlanta is full of a lot of regular Black folk that have nothing to do with the entertainment industry. And natives are far from that image as well. Ironically, the surreal show Atlanta is the most accurate depiction of the city imo.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MDAllstar
I think it’s important to keep the reasons black people move to southern cities like Atlanta, Houston, and Dallas etc. in perspective. Black people move to southern cities to escape the expensive, high density, crowded, urban, walkable, fast paced lifestyle in the cities up north. The things that attract people south is not living in the city. If that was something they desired, they probably would not have moved to the south to begin with.
Then you have other black people in the south moving to cities in the south from smaller southern cities or rural areas and they have never experienced an urban lifestyle and don’t care to. Usually, black people don’t leave a city like DC, Chicago, or NYC etc. expecting Atlanta, Houston, or Dallas to be similar. They move south for cheaper, less expensive, larger housing, with land and space in a suburban setting which is the opposite of where they are coming from. The black gentrifier is someone that desires a smaller home in a dense environment which is the opposite of why people move to Atlanta.
I'd also say Black families "avoid" urban areas simply due to a lack of good public schools. Can't count on your child getting into a magnet/private or charter school. I know me personally would prefer an urban setting but I'll choose the burbs every time if it means my child can get the best education possible.
Even neighborhoods that have been and are still majority black are skyrocketing in prices due to public investments like MARTA, the Beltline, and numerous new parks, bike lanes, and pedestrian improvements throughout the city. These aren’t things that should only be desirable to white people. When it comes to increased private development, it’s because the income of these neighborhoods are rising to levels that make development profitable. For example, the city of South Fulton has a ton of black middle class families with disposable incomes in newer subdivisions across the 100,000 people city. If these people moved to SW Atlanta it’d have the density and wealth to thrive as a black hub but many chose to move here to get away from the “hood” (whether they’re locals or transplants). I understand those with families wanted space and a lot of the neighborhoods in suburban Atlanta are beautiful but the mindsets behind the decisions to move here that I hear from many transplants is that they want to get away from poorer black neighborhoods now that they’ve “made it”. I’m fine with that personal decision but to then go on and criticize any new development in the city and scream at those who take advantage of it just seems hypocritical to me. If you want Atlanta to stay black, actually invest in the city. There are still inexpensive beautiful properties in places like Bankhead, Chosewood Park, Summerhill, Peoplestown, Oakland City, and Westview that other groups are taking advantage of.
same dynamic exists on DC and other places.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
