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I've heard these things about Atlanta several times before and there's no shortage of those Anti-Atlanta videos on youtube as well. Me and my wife's experience living in Atlanta were completely DIFFERENT than your friend.
Her first mistake was moving to Atlanta on impulse. Atlanta has wayyyyyyy too many people moving there on impulse and this is simply based off hype. Some of these people(most are very young) think as soon as they touchdown in Atlanta, the red carpets roll out and the city should shower you with roses. Tons of dreamers move to Atlanta expecting to see an image of the city similar to a rap video or Real housewives of Atlanta. They come with preconceived notions of the city and when they see a couple of those stereotypes in the city then it just further confirms those things for them.
The thing is a lot of young Black folks move to these cities and hit social scenes that cater to that fake it to you make it demographic. They hit up the clubs/popular restaurants/bars and think that's the pinnacle of Atlanta culture. It's so much more to Atlanta than that but lots of younger transplants don't go beyond that. Which says a lot more about that person and not the city they chose to move to on impulse.
Yes, many of my peers have fallen victim. She said it was the aura that attracted her-whatever that means lol. She admitted the impulse move was a mistake. But upon talking to her more recently it sounds like she made a gradual piecemeal move and for whatever reason shes over it 3 months into finalizing the move. Maybe shell have a change of heart. I'll ask about Little Five Points and if she has been.
I think all the people moving there on whims and for vapid reasons dilutes the image of the professional class- doesnt mean it doesn't exist in robust numbers but its enough for me to lean towards DC.
I think it’s important to keep the reasons black people move to southern cities like Atlanta, Houston, and Dallas etc. in perspective. Black people move to southern cities to escape the expensive, high density, crowded, urban, walkable, fast paced lifestyle in the cities up north. The things that attract people south is not living in the city. If that was something they desired, they probably would not have moved to the south to begin with.
Then you have other black people in the south moving to cities in the south from smaller southern cities or rural areas and they have never experienced an urban lifestyle and don’t care to. Usually, black people don’t leave a city like DC, Chicago, or NYC etc. expecting Atlanta, Houston, or Dallas to be similar. They move south for cheaper, less expensive, larger housing, with land and space in a suburban setting which is the opposite of where they are coming from. The black gentrifier is someone that desires a smaller home in a dense environment which is the opposite of why people move to Atlanta.
Quote:
Originally Posted by the resident09
This is 100% fact. Hence the Black "urban" professional preferring to move to a DC than an Atlanta. Of all the people I've known to leave DC for Atlanta, it was to "get away" from it all, or they "felt more free spirited" to live how they wanted or start their business, or they just wanted a change of pace/scenery without sacrificing too much and ATL was their preferred destination.
I lived a year in Atlanta, and probably visited enough times to total close to two years of my life. It's come a long way, and will continue to be the Black Mecca that it is, but it's still not as polished as DC with the professional Black class. The cities Black culture and influence is same tier, but DC is definitely the leader in terms of the Black professional class. I just realized the OP made this about PG vs Dekalb county which again, Dekalb has Black professionals by comparison than most areas in the US, but PG definitely wins this. Something like 5-8 of the nation's wealthiest Black neighborhoods are in Prince George's County, MD with none from Dekalb in the top 10.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redlionjr
I've heard these things about Atlanta several times before and there's no shortage of those Anti-Atlanta videos on youtube as well. Me and my wife's experience living in Atlanta were completely DIFFERENT than your friend.
Her first mistake was moving to Atlanta on impulse. Atlanta has wayyyyyyy too many people moving there on impulse and this is simply based off hype. Some of these people(most are very young) think as soon as they touchdown in Atlanta, the red carpets roll out and the city should shower you with roses. Tons of dreamers move to Atlanta expecting to see an image of the city similar to a rap video or Real housewives of Atlanta. They come with preconceived notions of the city and when they see a couple of those stereotypes in the city then it just further confirms those things for them.
The thing is a lot of young Black folks move to these cities and hit social scenes that cater to that fake it to you make it demographic. They hit up the clubs/popular restaurants/bars and think that's the pinnacle of Atlanta culture. It's so much more to Atlanta than that but lots of younger transplants don't go beyond that. Which says a lot more about that person and not the city they chose to move to on impulse.
And mind you me and my Wife was involved in the entertainment industry in Atlanta. We specifically moved to Atlanta for that and knew how to maneuver. In a industry that's filled to the brim with those types we met quite a few genuine real people that were still cool with to this day. That looked out for us when they found out we just moved to the city. I also found Atlanta to be one of the best cities for Black people to find your tribe. Funny you say she's one of the free spirited type when Atlanta has a lot of free spirit Black folks all over the city. She could have easily went to Little 5 Points and hit up Sevananda and linked up with some brothas and sistas on that level. It's easy to avoid the crowd she detest. I tell people all the time despite what people see on tv Atlanta is full of a lot of regular Black folk that have nothing to do with the entertainment industry. And natives are far from that image as well. Ironically, the surreal show Atlanta is the most accurate depiction of the city imo.
I'd also say Black families "avoid" urban areas simply due to a lack of good public schools. Can't count on your child getting into a magnet/private or charter school. I know me personally would prefer an urban setting but I'll choose the burbs every time if it means my child can get the best education possible.
As someone who's lived in both the Atlanta and DC metro areas, you guys are spot on. Just because certain posters prefer an urban environment for themselves doesn't mean that everyone wants the same things. I know plenty of Black families who do NOT want to live in high-density environments and are fine with their suburban environments... And you know what? That's fine. I'm not paying their mortgage so it doesn't make me any nevermind. More people need to learn to mind the business that pays them instead of bemoaning what other people do. My mother came up here a few months back from Mississippi and she was NOT impressed with the townhomes in the suburbs and remarked that "kids need a backyard" when she saw a father with his kids and pushing a stroller to go to a park we had just left in Old Town Alexandria. The DMV is not for everyone and there's too much traffic and congestion as it is, LOL.
Most people with sense will know that Atlanta is a Sunbelt city and all that comes with that and will adjust their expectations accordingly. Most New Yorkers I knew who relocated to Atlanta wanted a house with a backyard and know that Atlanta is not a carbon copy of the denser cities up North. But you always had some people who thought that Atlanta was going to be a carbon copy of what they just left. I remember a poster who had moved to the West End of Atlanta and thought it was going to be a southern-fried version of Harlem and got mad when it wasn't and got madder when posters pretty much told them they should've done more research before they moved. Which goes to show you how people don't do their research. But that goes into the whole issue of people who relocate to Atlanta on impulse and a wing and a prayer. It was really bad in the 2000s with folks thinking ATL was the land of Milk and Honey and opportunities were everywhere you looked. I moved there for Grad school, so I had a purpose, but I admit I had similar preconceived notions, but I was quickly humbled (and I was only 23 at the time, not exactly an age where people make the best decisions). Also, a lot of people don't realize that Atlanta is still pretty "new" compared to legacy cities. It was a mid-size metro with streetcar suburbs for much of the 20th century and didn't really have the bones to be a megacity until well into the 1970s and 80s. Hell, the Metro Atlanta area only reached about 4 million people about 20 years ago. It was the size of St. Louis city and Metro as recently as the 1980s.
I'll be fair and say I've run into Southerners and Midwesterners who move here to the DMV and expect things to be similar to what they left. For one, the high COL is a sticker shock and you're not going to find a nice apartment for $700-1000/month like you did back home in GA/NC/SC/etc. The food isn't as good as what you get down South or in parts of the Midwest (Chicago is a far better eating town than DC, I'll tell you what!). Driving here is an ordeal compared to most southern cities. There are toll roads and since this is an area where two states and a District intersect, there are different rules and regulations depending on where you are, even down to what county you reside in. The bottom line, the DMV is a harder place to live than most southern cities. I can empathize with people who don't want to deal with the headaches that come with that, but hey, research is key. One of my friends relocated here from Atlanta a few years back and constantly complains about how DC is not like Atlanta the way he thought it would be. And I'm like, Duh! He was bemoaning how there wasn't a 24-hour barber here like there was in Atlanta and how everyone up here wants a government job and how Atlanta has far more entrepreneurs, which is what he prefers. Let's just say that he's getting his ducks in a row to move back to ATL and I'm fine with it because blooming where you're planted goes a long way towards how happy you'll be in a city in the long term. Just because DC worked for me personally and professionally and Atlanta didn't doesn't mean my story is typical or that's everyone's story. And vice-versa.
I also agree that Atlanta is one of the better cities to find your "tribe" as a black person compared to other cities. Whether you're working-class, a hotep, a hippie, a professional/buppie, a blerd, a suburbanite, an urbanite, a saved/sanctified churchgoer, a part of the Black Hollywood scene, a hip hop head, a part of the LGBT scene (which has its own subcultures) or you're just a regular person trying to survive, you're more than likely to find that in Atlanta than many other cities, but I'm not saying its not the only city where Black people have multiple tribes. If you're a West Indian or African immigrant or 2nd generation immigrant from the Diaspora, there are communities there as well. I'm not saying that DC doesn't have these things, but they're a hell of a lot easier to find in ATL. Due to the spread-out nature of metro Atlanta, it can be hard to find your scene, but it takes work and time. A lot of people fall into the clubbing and "Hollywood" scenes because they're promoted a lot more and a lot more accessible than other scenes, and a lot of people fall into that trap and think that's the only thing going on in ATL, when the reality is far more complex and compelling.
Basically, Atlanta is a microcosm of a large swath of modern Black America due to our sheer numbers there (well over 2 million and surpassed Chicago as the 2nd largest metro with a black population back in the 2000s), and you'll get the Good (the large upper and middle-class black neighborhoods and scenes), and the Bad (increasing suburban poverty, widening income gaps between the haves and have nots, racial resentment from the Good Ol' Boys in Georgia, etc.) that comes with that. That's why anytime anything good or bad happens in Atlanta, it's examined with a fine-tooth comb from its detractors and its promoters due to the high expectations and the perception that it's the city that is perceived to be the pinnacle of Black success in America.
As for this, I will say DC has a lot more polished of a Black Professional scene and is far more work-oriented while Atlanta is more entrepreneurial and work-to-live than DC is. Atlanta is a far more well-rounded city/metro than DC on many things, which is a lot more government-issue and military-oriented than ATL is. If you're more entrepreneurial in nature and don't give a damn about a secret clearance or GS-Level, Atlanta is a better option than DC by miles.
I just realized the OP made this about PG vs Dekalb county which again, Dekalb has Black professionals by comparison than most areas in the US, but PG definitely wins this. Something like 5-8 of the nation's wealthiest Black neighborhoods are in Prince George's County, MD with none from Dekalb in the top 10.
This is true and it's because Atlanta's Black population overall, including the higher-earning/more affluent subset, is a lot more dispersed in general and certainly more than the DMV's than I realized; as a matter of fact I'd say Dekalb stopped being the preferred suburban county for well-to-do Black folks some time ago. This became clear to me when exploring the interactive map for the Distressed Communities Index study, which uses 2010-2018 data to sort U.S. zip codes based on seven complementary economic indicators into five even quintiles of well-being: prosperous, comfortable, mid-tier, at risk, and distressed. Nationwide, there are only 19 such zip codes with majority Black populations that fall into the prosperous category, with 8 of those located within PG County and an additional three elsewhere in the DMV (Ward 4 in DC [Shepherd Park/Takoma Park], Waldorf).
When I saw there were none from Georgia on this list (although I knew the income figures would still be below those of the DMV communities), I was quite perplexed and figured something there must have been some missing data or inherent flaw in the study but that's when I began exploring the map. It's generally well-known, at least on this forum, that there's a bigger Black working-class/underclass in metro Atlanta than many realize and certainly compared to the DMV and the map reflects that with largest swath concentrated in the southern half of Fulton and extending into Clayton, and within a good bit of Dekalb; however, it should be kept in mind that there are are some higher-income, stable neighborhoods scattered throughout the at-risk and distressed zip codes such as Cascade (30311). The more affluent Black population in metro Atlanta is found in dispersed clusters throughout the five core counties (Fulton, Dekalb, Cobb, Gwinnett, Clayton) plus Douglas, Fayette, Henry, and Rockdale counties. Although there are no majority Black zip codes in metro Atlanta categorized as prosperous, what you have instead is several with a sizable Black minority (at least 20%) that fall into the prosperous category and even more with a sizable Black minority or plurality/majority Black population ranked as comfortable.
Prosperous zip codes at least 20% Black
30215 Fayette County - Fayetteville (25%)
30252 Henry County - McDonough (26%)
30127 Cobb County - Powder Springs (42%)
30339 Cobb County - Vinings (22%)
30030 Dekalb County - Decatur (22%)
30350 Fulton County - Sandy Springs (32%)
30078 Gwinnett County - Snellville (33%)
30017 Gwinnett County - Grayson (31%)
30043 Gwinnett County - Lawrenceville (24%)
30019 Gwinnett County - Dacula (23%)
*31038 Jasper County (Hillsboro) at 35% is technically within the metro but is a tiny far-flung rural county with a population just under 15K that's essentially daisy-chained into the MSA.
Comfortable zip codes at least 20% Black
30180 Carroll County - Villa Rica (25%)
30135 Douglas County - Douglasville (43%)
30214 Fayette County - Fayetteville (43%)
30290 Fayette County - Tyrone (27%)
30228 Henry County - Hampton (55%)
30253 Henry County - McDonough (50%)
30248 Henry County - Locust Grove (25%)
30141 Paulding County - Hiram (24%)
30013 Rockdale County - Conyers (65%)
30094 Rockdale County - Conyers (53%)
30126 Cobb County - Mableton (44%)
30082 Cobb County - Smyrna (32%)
30080 Cobb County - Smyrna (30%)
30144 Cobb County - Kennesaw (21%)
30294 Dekalb County - Ellenwood (85%)
30317 Dekalb County - Atlanta (46%)
30002 Dekalb County - Avondale Estates (36%)
30213 Fulton County - Fairburn (75%)
30308 Fulton County - Atlanta (31%)
30039 Gwinnett County - Snellville (62%)
30045 Gwinnett County - Lawrenceville (48%)
30052 Gwinnett County - Loganville (28%)
30096 Gwinnett County - Duluth (25%)
30044 Gwinnett County - Lawrenceville (25%)
30092 Gwinnett County - Peachtree Corners (25%)
30047 Gwinnett County - Lilburn (21%)
*30346 Dekalb County (Dunwoody) almost met the threshold at 19%.
That's some major dispersal right there, but as far as the immediate suburban counties go, in reality Cobb and Gwinnett have larger concentrations of Blacks doing well than Dekalb these days. As a metro area, the socioeconomic diversity of metro Atlanta's huge Black population is very evident looking at the interactive map.
I also found Atlanta to be one of the best cities for Black people to find your tribe. Funny you say she's one of the free spirited type when Atlanta has a lot of free spirit Black folks all over the city. She could have easily went to Little 5 Points and hit up Sevananda and linked up with some brothas and sistas on that level. It's easy to avoid the crowd she detest. I tell people all the time despite what people see on tv Atlanta is full of a lot of regular Black folk that have nothing to do with the entertainment industry. And natives are far from that image as well. Ironically, the surreal show Atlanta is the most accurate depiction of the city imo.
Yup! My closest friend in Atlanta is a native (from Bankhead) who's lived in the city his entire life except for the time he spent overseas in the Peace Corps, graduated from Morehouse, has a successful home-based business, and is one of the most humble, down-to-earth people I've ever met in life. There are plenty more Black folks like him in the city and even more in the mundane suburbs living their quiet suburban lives and enjoying their stock suburban amenities like so many other Americans.
This is true and it's because Atlanta's Black population overall, including the higher-earning/more affluent subset, is a lot more dispersed in general and certainly more than the DMV's than I realized; as a matter of fact I'd say Dekalb stopped being the preferred suburban county for well-to-do Black folks some time ago. This became clear to me when exploring the interactive map for the Distressed Communities Index study, which uses 2010-2018 data to sort U.S. zip codes based on seven complementary economic indicators into five even quintiles of well-being: prosperous, comfortable, mid-tier, at risk, and distressed. Nationwide, there are only 19 such zip codes with majority Black populations that fall into the prosperous category, with 8 of those located within PG County and an additional three elsewhere in the DMV (Ward 4 in DC [Shepherd Park/Takoma Park], Waldorf).
When I saw there were none from Georgia on this list (although I knew the income figures would still be below those of the DMV communities), I was quite perplexed and figured something there must have been some missing data or inherent flaw in the study but that's when I began exploring the map. It's generally well-known, at least on this forum, that there's a bigger Black working-class/underclass in metro Atlanta than many realize and certainly compared to the DMV and the map reflects that with largest swath concentrated in the southern half of Fulton and extending into Clayton, and within a good bit of Dekalb; however, it should be kept in mind that there are are some higher-income, stable neighborhoods scattered throughout the at-risk and distressed zip codes such as Cascade (30311). The more affluent Black population in metro Atlanta is found in dispersed clusters throughout the five core counties (Fulton, Dekalb, Cobb, Gwinnett, Clayton) plus Douglas, Fayette, Henry, and Rockdale counties. Although there are no majority Black zip codes in metro Atlanta categorized as prosperous, what you have instead is several with a sizable Black minority (at least 20%) that fall into the prosperous category and even more with a sizable Black minority or plurality/majority Black population ranked as comfortable.
Prosperous zip codes at least 20% Black
30215 Fayette County - Fayetteville (25%)
30252 Henry County - McDonough (26%)
30127 Cobb County - Powder Springs (42%)
30339 Cobb County - Vinings (22%)
30030 Dekalb County - Decatur (22%)
30350 Fulton County - Sandy Springs (32%)
30078 Gwinnett County - Snellville (33%)
30017 Gwinnett County - Grayson (31%)
30043 Gwinnett County - Lawrenceville (24%)
30019 Gwinnett County - Dacula (23%)
*31038 Jasper County (Hillsboro) at 35% is technically within the metro but is a tiny far-flung rural county with a population just under 15K that's essentially daisy-chained into the MSA.
Comfortable zip codes at least 20% Black
30180 Carroll County - Villa Rica (25%)
30135 Douglas County - Douglasville (43%)
30214 Fayette County - Fayetteville (43%)
30290 Fayette County - Tyrone (27%)
30228 Henry County - Hampton (55%)
30253 Henry County - McDonough (50%)
30248 Henry County - Locust Grove (25%)
30141 Paulding County - Hiram (24%)
30013 Rockdale County - Conyers (65%)
30094 Rockdale County - Conyers (53%)
30126 Cobb County - Mableton (44%)
30082 Cobb County - Smyrna (32%)
30080 Cobb County - Smyrna (30%)
30144 Cobb County - Kennesaw (21%)
30294 Dekalb County - Ellenwood (85%)
30317 Dekalb County - Atlanta (46%)
30002 Dekalb County - Avondale Estates (36%)
30213 Fulton County - Fairburn (75%)
30308 Fulton County - Atlanta (31%)
30039 Gwinnett County - Snellville (62%)
30045 Gwinnett County - Lawrenceville (48%)
30052 Gwinnett County - Loganville (28%)
30096 Gwinnett County - Duluth (25%)
30044 Gwinnett County - Lawrenceville (25%)
30092 Gwinnett County - Peachtree Corners (25%)
30047 Gwinnett County - Lilburn (21%)
*30346 Dekalb County (Dunwoody) almost met the threshold at 19%.
That's some major dispersal right there, but as far as the immediate suburban counties go, in reality Cobb and Gwinnett have larger concentrations of Blacks doing well than Dekalb these days. As a metro area, the socioeconomic diversity of metro Atlanta's huge Black population is very evident looking at the interactive map.
This is a really great breakdown. I would be interested to see a breakdown for other cities.
Yes, many of my peers have fallen victim. She said it was the aura that attracted her-whatever that means lol. She admitted the impulse move was a mistake. But upon talking to her more recently it sounds like she made a gradual piecemeal move and for whatever reason shes over it 3 months into finalizing the move. Maybe shell have a change of heart. I'll ask about Little Five Points and if she has been.
I think all the people moving there on whims and for vapid reasons dilutes the image of the professional class- doesnt mean it doesn't exist in robust numbers but its enough for me to lean towards DC.
And at the same time, I'm glad Black folks have a city has that sort of appeal (although those days are starting to come to an end IMO). Historically we didn't have the opportunity extended to us to strike out on our own and be told "Go west, young man" so I'll take "Go to Atlanta n$#%a" instead LOL.
Yes, many of my peers have fallen victim. She said it was the aura that attracted her-whatever that means lol. She admitted the impulse move was a mistake. But upon talking to her more recently it sounds like she made a gradual piecemeal move and for whatever reason shes over it 3 months into finalizing the move. Maybe shell have a change of heart. I'll ask about Little Five Points and if she has been.
I think all the people moving there on whims and for vapid reasons dilutes the image of the professional class- doesnt mean it doesn't exist in robust numbers but its enough for me to lean towards DC.
Yeah I don't know how old your friend is but man is that super common with young 20 to early 30 year olds. And honestly this is starting to become a trend on youtube in any city. Not saying people don't have a right to complain about a city but it's the "I packed up my things and moved and now I regret it" crowd that kind of annoys me.
I think we're living in a age now where moving on a whim to a big city is pretty much dead. Not saying it can't work but with cost of living going up even pre-covid and the job market becoming more competitive it's a lot harder to have a good experience moving on impulse. But at the same time you have endless information on the internet before you make your move that should at least give you some insight to where your moving to. I'm also amazed at how many people move to a city before visiting a city. You should at least visit 2 to 3 times to really get a feel for the city. Visit a tourist the first time and the 2nd time visit as a local and you'll start to get your answer there.
My experience in Atlanta would have definitely been different had I not asked questions on CD, visit a couple of times and moved looking for a job. If all I went off on is what I saw on tv I probably would be let down and have a bad experience myself.
Quote:
Originally Posted by biscuit_head
I'll be fair and say I've run into Southerners and Midwesterners who move here to the DMV and expect things to be similar to what they left. For one, the high COL is a sticker shock and you're not going to find a nice apartment for $700-1000/month like you did back home in GA/NC/SC/etc. The food isn't as good as what you get down South or in parts of the Midwest (Chicago is a far better eating town than DC, I'll tell you what!). Driving here is an ordeal compared to most southern cities. There are toll roads and since this is an area where two states and a District intersect, there are different rules and regulations depending on where you are, even down to what county you reside in. The bottom line, the DMV is a harder place to live than most southern cities. I can empathize with people who don't want to deal with the headaches that come with that, but hey, research is key. One of my friends relocated here from Atlanta a few years back and constantly complains about how DC is not like Atlanta the way he thought it would be. And I'm like, Duh! He was bemoaning how there wasn't a 24-hour barber here like there was in Atlanta and how everyone up here wants a government job and how Atlanta has far more entrepreneurs, which is what he prefers. Let's just say that he's getting his ducks in a row to move back to ATL and I'm fine with it because blooming where you're planted goes a long way towards how happy you'll be in a city in the long term. Just because DC worked for me personally and professionally and Atlanta didn't doesn't mean my story is typical or that's everyone's story. And vice-versa.
As for this, I will say DC has a lot more polished of a Black Professional scene and is far more work-oriented while Atlanta is more entrepreneurial and work-to-live than DC is. Atlanta is a far more well-rounded city/metro than DC on many things, which is a lot more government-issue and military-oriented than ATL is. If you're more entrepreneurial in nature and don't give a damn about a secret clearance or GS-Level, Atlanta is a better option than DC by miles.
I don't know if this was the tourist in me talking but when I visited D.C. back in 2011 I enjoyed the city so much I was ready to move there. I know D.C. has changed a lot by then but I loved the urban vibe up there. Plus to me it felt like a eastcoast city with some southern vibes. Now it's definitely not as well rounded of a city for Atlanta. D.C. is not for everybody. I think the COL makes it a little less inviting than Atlanta but the urban enthusiast in me would sway more to D.C. if I could afford it.
I don't know if this was the tourist in me talking but when I visited D.C. back in 2011 I enjoyed the city so much I was ready to move there. I know D.C. has changed a lot by then but I loved the urban vibe up there. Plus to me it felt like a eastcoast city with some southern vibes. Now it's definitely not as well rounded of a city for Atlanta. D.C. is not for everybody. I think the COL makes it a little less inviting than Atlanta but the urban enthusiast in me would sway more to D.C. if I could afford it.
DC is just such a classy place to visit and all of my visits to the city before relocating up north to Jersey in 2015 were fun and memorable. And yeah, its urban form is appealing to folks like us who enjoy an extensive, quality, authentic urban experience with subtle Southern undertones that give it a "home-y" feel at the same time. I'll always love Atlanta but DC is treating me very well professionally and having other sizable cities in close proximity has me spoiled. It's almost a habit for me now to make a stop in Richmond whenever I have to drive back south and heading back up.
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