Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
It's pure folly to rely on local definitions because they won't be parallel. I'd focus on census tract numbers for CBDs plus contiguous dense areas, even if they're from 2020 (not sure what the status is for estimates at tract level). Maybe do total populations in 2-4 square miles.
As for Seattle, no way it's #3. I'd guess #6 or so depending on the definition used. NY, SF, Chi, Bos, Phi would be well above. DC would be if the area was large enough to overcome the empty middle. LA would go ahead depending how far west you expand to. BTW, I'd include some areas across I-5 even before the Space Needle (or my condo nearby) for example.
In 2020, a 2.707 sm area for Seattle had 84,971 residents. A 4.52 sm area had 131,507. The smaller area had a density of 31,389. The larger 29,094. (We could skip the guessing about 2024 vs. 2020.)
It's pure folly to rely on local definitions because they won't be parallel. I'd focus on census tract numbers for CBDs plus contiguous dense areas, even if they're from 2020 (not sure what the status is for estimates at tract level). Maybe do total populations in 2-4 square miles.
As for Seattle, no way it's #3. I'd guess #6 or so depending on the definition used. NY, SF, Chi, Bos, Phi would be well above. DC would be if the area was large enough to overcome the empty middle. LA would go ahead depending how far west you expand to. BTW, I'd include some areas across I-5 even before the Space Needle (or my condo nearby) for example.
In 2020, a 2.707 sm area for Seattle had 84,971 residents. A 4.52 sm area had 131,507. The smaller area had a density of 31,389. The larger 29,094. (We could skip the guessing about 2024 vs. 2020.)
There's a site out there somewhere that attempts uniformity by drawing a two-mile circle around the city hall and measuring the population within it. That model may be uniform, but it also has a flaw in that the city hall may not be in the heart of the city's central business district (Philadelphia's defines its center point).
Here, you can also get a good approximation by using the ZIP code tabulation areas for the four ZIP codes that cover the territory I mentioned above: 19102, 19103, 19106 and 19107. Using these does capture some of the city's waterfront north and south of Center City, omits the blocks between Pine and South streets and includes the blocks between Vine and Callowhill streets.
FWIW, Center City Philadelphia proper comprises 2.2 square miles.
I guess the bulk of my argument is that of all the downtown definitions out there, Philadelphia's is probably the clearest and hardest to fudge. Even the CCD will produce stats for "Core Center City," meaning Center City proper as opposed to the expanded definition. And the population figure in those boundaries definitely puts it in the top five and most likely in the top three, ahead of both SF and Chicago.
Midtown Manhattan is up there as well in terms of clarity: the territory from 34th to 59th streets.
Last edited by MarketStEl; 05-12-2024 at 01:07 PM..
It's pure folly to rely on local definitions because they won't be parallel.
I'd focus on census tract numbers for CBDs plus contiguous dense areas, even if they're from 2020 (not sure what the status is for estimates at tract level). Maybe do total populations in 2-4 square miles.
As for Seattle, no way it's #3. I'd guess #6 or so depending on the definition used. NY, SF, Chi, Bos, Phi would be well above. DC would be if the area was large enough to overcome the empty middle. LA would go ahead depending how far west you expand to. BTW, I'd include some areas across I-5 even before the Space Needle (or my condo nearby) for example.
At the same time urban geography isnt fungible.
While Downtown Seattle people can come up with 3 sq miles that is Downtown you very much can not do that in Boston.
Back Bay isn’t downtown, the South End isn’t downtown, the Seaport isn’t downtown etc.
Rochester NY is like that to. The East End is it’s nightlife district and it’s very much not downtown despite the center of it being like 5 blocks from the center of Downtown.
It's pure folly to rely on local definitions because they won't be parallel. I'd focus on census tract numbers for CBDs plus contiguous dense areas, even if they're from 2020 (not sure what the status is for estimates at tract level). Maybe do total populations in 2-4 square miles.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mhays25
As for Seattle, no way it's #3. I'd guess #6 or so depending on the definition used. NY, SF, Chi, Bos, Phi would be well above. DC would be if the area was large enough to overcome the empty middle. LA would go ahead depending how far west you expand to. BTW, I'd include some areas across I-5 even before the Space Needle (or my condo nearby) for example.
In 2020, a 2.707 sm area for Seattle had 84,971 residents. A 4.52 sm area had 131,507. The smaller area had a density of 31,389. The larger 29,094. (We could skip the guessing about 2024 vs. 2020.)
Census tracts would be the only accurate way to compare them. Too many city downtowns are water adjacent (SD, Baltimore, Chicago, Seattle, Miami, Boston) while others are developed haphazardly/skewed in specific directions.
That being said the top 9 are almost always fixed by any and all metrics using a 1 mile radius (3.14 sq/mi).
NYC
SF/Chicago
Philly/Boston
Seattle/DC/LA/Miami
Number #10 is where it becomes an absolute chicken shoot between SD, Baltimore, Portland, Atlanta, MSP, Dallas & Denver.
New York has three downtowns, one in Brooklyn and two in Manhattan.
The only one of those that I would say is almost wholly commercial is Downtown Brooklyn, and Brooklyn Heights lies within walking distance of it.
Lower (Downtown) Manhattan had been exclusively business, but starting in the 1980s, some of the office buildings got converted into apartments.
Midtown Manhattan, from 34th to 59th streets, used to be more residential than is is now. But houses gave way to offices in that area. Still, there is some housing on the streets east of Third Avenue, and Park Avenue also has residences along it.
Downtown Brooklyn has had a massive ongoing shift occurring over the last two decades where many high-rises, almost all of them residential save for the ground floor, have gone up. It's been a rather dramatic difference, and along with three other secondary CBDs within NYC of Long Island City and downtown Flushing, probably among the largest increase in residents per square mile in the country.
If you are sitting at the Prudential people might say “let’s go downtown” if you’re at Post offfice sq nobody would say “let’s go downtown”
But you could be on Mission Hill and say “let’s go downtown” and mean the Prudential Center.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
