DC vs San Francisco (compared, life, highest, downtown)

[sbarn]

Originally Posted by MDAllstar

LOL....I just posted links of 20+ story residential high rises. What are you talking about?

Thanks but no thanks, can't say I'm a fan of the links you gave. I'll take THIS over those other locations.

[Nineties Flava]

Originally Posted by sbarn

Thanks but no thanks, can't say I'm a fan of the links you gave. I'll take THIS over those other locations.

Same here. That looks more urban than the other links despite not being tall.

[MDAllstar]

Originally Posted by Nineties Flava

Arlington is not really a suburb, it's a small city.

As for the other examples, barring Silver Spring those downtowns did not seem very vibrant. Tall, yes. Vibrant, no. I'm literally seeing next to no storefronts in the Alexandria example and next to no pedestrians. The new construction is nice but it looks very underutilized.

Bethesda looks a little more lived in but I'm still seeing no storefronts. It looks very corporate and not pedestrian friendly.

Downtown Silver Spring's the only one that actually looks vibrant and worth visiting.

DT Berkeley by comparison is definitely shorter but there's also much more going on. What are the music/theater/restaurant scenes like in the downtowns of Alexandria/Bethesda/Arlington/Silver Spring? Those aren't limited to DT Berkeley either... you can find a great bite to eat all over town as well as a great concert.

The other downtowns I mentioned also have good restaurant scenes though they aren't as good as Berkeley's.

Bethesda is a major retail and restaurant center with thousand of people living in high-rises. You might want to visit instead of using google street view. Friendship Heights right down the road has Gucci, Jimmy Choo, Saks 5th Ave, Tiffany's etc. etc.

Alexandria is one of the oldest cities in the nation and is extremly vibrant. I don't think I have ever seen someone try to get a feel of pedestrian activity based on google street view. The only thing you can get from google street view is the built environment. You can't derive any kind of real sense of what the area is like.

Saying Arlington is it's own city is the very point I have been trying to make. Arlington and D.C. are separated by a tiny river. D.C.'s urbanity travels through the whole MSA. D.C. has so many urban area's and the transit infrastructure is on a different level than the Bay.

[MDAllstar]

Originally Posted by sbarn

Thanks but no thanks, can't say I'm a fan of the links you gave. I'll take THIS over those other locations.

That is my point. This type of urbanity doesn't exist outside San Fran proper. The east coast cities are row house, high-rise, subway line cities. The west coast just isn't on that level.

[Nineties Flava]

Originally Posted by MDAllstar

Bethesda is a major retail and restaurant center with thousand of people living in high-rises. You might want to visit instead of using google street view. Friendship Heights right down the road has Gucci, Jimmy Choo, Saks 5th Ave, Tiffany's etc. etc.

Alexandria is one of the oldest cities in the nation and is extremly vibrant. I don't think I have ever seen someone try to get a feel of pedestrian activity based on google street view. The only thing you can get from google street view is the built environment. You can't derive any kind of real sense of what the area is like.

Saying Arlington is it's own city is the very point I have been trying to make. Arlington and D.C. are separated by a tiny river. D.C.'s urbanity travels through the whole MSA. D.C. has so many urban area's and the transit infrastructure is on a different level than the Bay.

I said Arlington is more of a small city than a suburb because of its population. It's definitely not urban at all outside of Downtown, unless this looks urban to you. Alexandria is the only one out of the suburbs you mentioned that has urban neighborhoods.

inner-ring Bay Area suburbs aren't tall but they're generally denser and more densely built. Some of the neighborhoods in the suburbs you mentioned look downright rural:

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=woodsi...31.23,,0,-2.46

There's nowhere in the inner ring Bay suburbs outside of the hills that looks remotely like that.

[Nineties Flava]

Originally Posted by MDAllstar

That is my point. This type of urbanity doesn't exist outside San Fran proper. The east coast cities are row house, high-rise, subway line cities. The west coast just isn't on that level.

False. The urbanity in Oakland alone ****s on anything in the DC Metro barring DC itself.

[MDAllstar]

Originally Posted by Nineties Flava

I said Arlington is more of a small city than a suburb because of its population. It's definitely not urban at all outside of Downtown, unless this looks urban to you. Alexandria is the only one out of the suburbs you mentioned that has urban neighborhoods.

inner-ring Bay Area suburbs aren't tall but they're generally denser and more densely built. Some of the neighborhoods in the suburbs you mentioned look downright rural:

woodside parkway, silver spring, MD - Google Maps

There's nowhere in the inner ring Bay suburbs outside of the hills that looks remotely like that.

Honestly, if those tiny little strips are the best you could do, then this competition is over. I mean, San Leandro looks like a tiny town in West Virginia. If you blink, you would miss it. Where is the downtown housing? That tiny little strip wouldn't be considered anything in D.C. A better question is what is the density and population for these area's your trying to pass for downtown's in the Bay area?

[18Montclair]

Originally Posted by MDAllstar

That is my point. This type of urbanity doesn't exist outside San Fran proper. l.

You guys should really stop pretending that you've actually been here.

There are connected neighborhoods of 10,000ppsm+ extending all the way into San Leandro(3 neighborhoods connected to Oakland) and Albany(1 neighborhood connected to Berkeley) as well as about 2 dozen other Oakland neighborhoods that are connected to the former list of areas.

the area of 10,000+persons per square mile Extends over an area that is 18 Miles North to South from Downtown Albany to Farrelly Pond, San Leandro.


Here is the updated list of Oakland, Berkeley, San Leandro and Albany connected neighborhoods with a density of 10,000+ppsm
Neighborhood, City, Population Per Square Mile
Oak Tree Neighborhood, Oakland 34,447
Gold Coast Neighborhood, Oakland 29,212
Telegraph Ave neighborhood, Berkeley 28,188
Adams Point Neighborhood, Oakland 26,632
Clinton Neighborhood, Oakland 25,677
Ivy Hill Neighborhood, Oakland 22,866
St Elizabeth Neighborhood, Oakland 21,327
Merritt Neighborhood, Oakland 19,957
Harrington Neighborhood, Oakland 19,951
Patten Neighborhood, Oakland 19,950
Highland Terrace Neighborhood, Oakland 18,625
Allendale Neighborhood, Oakland 18,880
Seminary Neighborhood, Oakland 17,899
Tuxedo Neighborhood, Oakland 17,502
Rancho San Antonio Neighborhood, Oakland 17,290
School Neighborhood, Oakland, CA 16,916
Hawthorne Neighborhood, Oakland 16,752
Meadow Brook Neighborhood, Oakland 16,772
Grand Lake Neighborhood, Oakland 16,716
Bella Vista Neighborhood, Oakland 16,713
Chinatown Neighborhood, Oakland 16,554
Southside Neighborhood, Berkeley 16,438
Fremont Neighborhood, Oakland 16,096
Oakland Ave/Harrison St Neighborhood, Oakland 15,980
Cox Neighborhood, Oakland 15,674
Hegenberger Neighborhood, Oakland 15,406
Fairfax Business Neighborhood, Oakland 15,242
Sausal Creek Neighborhood, Oakland 15,138
Peralta Hacienda Neighborhood, Oakland 14,811
Jefferson Neighborhood, Oakland 14,807
Wentworth-Holland Neighborhood, Oakland 14,794
Elmwood Neighborhood, Berkeley 14,603
Webster Neighborhood, Oakland 14,294
College Avenue Neighborhood, Berkeley 14,125
Eastmont Neighborhood, Oakland 14,002
Upper Peralta Creek Neighborhood, Oakland 13,959
East Peralta Neighborhood, Oakland 13,948
Highland Park Neighborhood, Oakland 13,705
Gourmet Ghetto Neighborhood, Berkeley 13,494
Castlemont Neighborhood, Oakland 13,414
Arroyo Viejo Neighborhood, Oakland 13,404
Cleveland Heights Neighborhood, Oakland 13,354
Fairfax Neighborhood, Oakland 12,993
Civic Center Neighborhood, Oakland, 12,856
North Neighborhood, Berkeley 12,815
Old Oakland Neighborhood, Oakland 12,280
Gaskill Neighborhood, Oakland 12,276
Iveywood Neighborhood, Oakland 12,136
Paradise Park neighborhood, Oakland 11,886
Piedmont Avenue Neighborhood, Oakland 11,798
South Berkeley neighborhood, Berkeley 11,749
Havenscourt Neighborhood, Oakland 11,639
North Stonehurst Neighborhood, Oakland 11,625
Farelly Pond Neighborhood, San Leandro 11,315
Central Berkeley Neighborhood, Berkeley 11,280
Fairview Park Neighborhood, Oakland 11,213
San Pablo Gateway Neighborhood, Oakland 11,151
Santa Fe Neighborhood, Oakland 11,132
Upper Laurel Neighborhood, Oakland 11,117
Laurel Neighborhood, Oakland 10,973
Longfellow Neighborhood, Oakland 10,896
Downtown Neighborhood, Albany 10,888
Las Palmas Neighborhood, Oakland 10,838
Bushrod Neighborhood, Oakland 10,810
Eastshore Neighborhood, San Leandro 10,738
Lakeshore Neighborhood, Oakland 10,736
Upper Dimond Neighborhood, Oakland 10,626
Creekside Neighborhood, San Leandro 10,393

Also, there is another large cluster a few miles North of the Oakland-Berkeley cluster of 10,000+ppsm in Richmond-San Pablo which includes the entire city of San Pablo and the entire Unincorporated town of Rollingwood

Richmond & San Pablo connected neighborhoods
Rollingwood CDP, 14,879 persons per square mile
Forest Park Neighborhood, Richmond 14,475 persons per square mile
City Center Neighborhood, Richmond 13,706 persons per square mile
Belding Woods Neighborhood, Richmond 13,273 persons per square mile
Eastshore Neighborhood, Richmond 11,710 persons per square mile
San Pablo City, 12,057 persons per square mile
Iron Triangle Neighborhood, Richmond 10,389 persons per square mile
Panhandle Annex Neighborhood, Richmond 10,299 persons per square mile

There are also other areas in San Leandro near the Hayward border which tells me that Hayward probably has 10,000ppsm neighborhoods too.

I made a map to satisfy my own curiosity.

[MDAllstar]

Originally Posted by Nineties Flava

False. The urbanity in Oakland alone ****s on anything in the DC Metro barring DC itself.

So, how many people live a car free urban lifestyle in all these area's you just showed?

[Nineties Flava]

Originally Posted by MDAllstar

So, how many people live a car free urban lifestyle in all these area's you just showed?

I would assume a fairly sizeable amount given that all the areas I mentioned have their own BART station.


I would ask have to ask the same about DC... surely if everybody in the DC burbs are enjoying a car free urban lifestyle, there's no explanation for why DC has the worst traffic in the nation right?