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Philly (left), NYC (center) .........sorry, they're just not that connected. Just look at each city, they have their own suburbs circling them. SF & SJ share suburbs as has been pointed out. Its very clear....
Since there is a huge contingent (dare I say, near majority) of posters here who think that SF and SJ MSA should be counted as one because of their proximity right next to each other.
However, thinking about distances from each other, the city limits of Phialdelphia and New York City from end to end are only 46 miles away, which is the same distance San Francisco is from San Jose downtown to downtown. Like SF-SJ, there is straight line development between Philadelphia and New York City through Central New Jersey, and increasingly, through the Lehigh Valley.
In addition, central counties of both (Mercer County for PHL-NYC, San Mateo for SF-SJ) send commuters to both areas.
And lastly, almost every single government and media publication counts San Jose and San Francisco as two different metro areas, just like Phialdelphia-New York City.
So are the two equivalent?
No. There's a major difference. Between NYC & PA is a actual state called New Jersey. SanFran & San Jose are in the same state, have the same Media Market, are closer, one county is between the two (San Mateo County), and etc. There is no way to say they are equivalent. Philly and NYC are both major cities, I only see San Fransisco as a major city. What all that pretty much means is that SanFran & San Jose are much more tied together than Philly and NYC.
I would consider Raleigh/Durham metro to be equivalent though smaller. It shares the same media market as SanFran and San Jose has, it has its own Silicon Valley (the Research Triangle Park), are tied together economically, they are two different metropolitan areas, and etc. The thing about it is that Raleigh/Durham isn't nearly as urban as the Bay and the most obvious part is that it lacks a bay.
If you're weighing in on the federal government's classifications, you should know that they are just as arbitrary as anything else and that they are a one-size-fits-all simplification for the census which is a quick general tool and not as nuanced as what is actually argued in this topic. Many publications refer to the whole area as the Bay Area.
Have you ever actually been to the Bay Area? You're arguing with some of the people who have actually lived there or currently live there. These are people who when they leave to other places they will actually refer to back home as the Bay Area. Do people from Philadelphia and New York use a singular term to refer to back home which combines just the two cities/metro?
They should, they're split on technicalities that are basically nonsensical in the real world...pretty much the same kind of nonsense as the MSA split between the two.
Here's how dumb the split is:
Stanford University is in Santa Clara county, therefore it's in SJ's metro area (MSA)...yet it's in San Francisco's Urban Area instead of SJ's urban area. Tell me how that makes any sense? Another example: Palo Alto is in SJ's MSA, but East Palo alto is in SF's MSA.
Hate it when this stuff happens The Philly UA gets cut on line of 10K+ density. Though this dynamic is not unique to SF/SJ by any means
Currently, while there is a strong economic/transportation/social connection between New York and Philadelphia, I don't think you could make the argument that it is as integrated as SF/SJ.
Within another 30-40 years, perhaps, but more urbanization needs to occur linking the two cities. I think true high-speed rail, whenever it actually is completed, would really speed up this process.
That Philadelphia and NYC are interconnected to a very large degree. Obviously it isn't a popular view to suggest that they are interconnected as SF and SJ, but I think that they are.
"Inter-connected" is just a word. I find SF & SJ inter-connected because they share a media market, sports teams and are governed by the laws of the same state. If I lived in SF or SJ, I would be receiving news on both cities every time I turned on the TV or radio. I would also be routing for sports teams in each city as "my" teams. These are a few of reason I consider these cities "inter-connected," in the manner of Dallas-Ft. Worth.
You are proposing that Philly and NYC are inter-connected to "a very large degree" and seem to be proposing the relationship is equivalent to that of the two Bay Area cities. Just because the NY and Philly suburbs abut one another on the maps you posted doesn't make them inter-connected, in my view. What is it that you see that I don't that leads you to this assertion?
In the Philadelphia/New Jersey/New York area it is always very clear if you are in Philadelphia or New York territory. Foods, language and accents, team support. The two cities are very close in distance and accessibility (often closer than native New Yorkers and Philadelphians realize growing up) but the divide is obvious. I remember during a hyped up Eagles/Giants game reading about a town in Mercer County, New Jersey that was evenly split between people claiming allegiance to New York vs. Philly but this is rare in the two Metros.
I do not think this would be the case in The Bay where the entire area seems to revolve and blend around San Francisco.
"Inter-connected" is just a word. I find SF & SJ inter-connected because they share a media market, sports teams and are governed by the laws of the same state. If I lived in SF or SJ, I would be receiving news on both cities every time I turned on the TV or radio. I would also be routing for sports teams in each city as "my" teams. These are a few of reason I consider these cities "inter-connected," in the manner of Dallas-Ft. Worth.
Well, again. Unlike DFW, San Francisco-San Jose are considered 2 different MSA's by the Federal Government, who is again the sole arbitor of deciding what is a metro area and what is not a metro area. And using the maps I posted, the amount of developed area between them is literally only 3.7 miles across the whole MSA border, while the border between Dallas and Fort Worth is almost wholly developed, regardless of the density of the border.
However, I have disregarded the thought that Philadelphia and NYC are within the same vein as SF-SJ. I actually feel extremely embarassed for asking, but hey, you win some you lose some.
Quote:
You are proposing that Philly and NYC are inter-connected to "a very large degree" and seem to be proposing the relationship is equivalent to that of the two Bay Area cities. Just because the NY and Philly suburbs abut one another on the maps you posted doesn't make them inter-connected, in my view. What is it that you see that I don't that leads you to this assertion?
Well, it was based on the fact that city to city border, Philadelphia to NYC is only 46 miles while SF-SJ is 41-42 miles. It's not that much different.
And given that the Central NJ suburbs are bleeding in together, looking non-distinct to whether there is a Philadelphia or New York orientation COULD lead one to believe that they have a similar connectivity.
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