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The links worked fine. I think maybe you just don't wanna see it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Summersm343
Wow, this forum truly is filled with a bunch of idiots.
I never disagreed that Cleveland Clinic is better than Penn Medicine. The fallacies began when you claimed that Cleveland was a better city for medicine than Philadelphia which is downright laughable. Undistinguished hospitals? HAHA. If you knew anything about Medical, which clearly you do not, you would have recognized that the medical centers I listed are some of the top in the U.S.
Philadelphia is also a leading city for medical research.
It's clear you can't comprehend a word anyone is saying so I leave it at that.
There is no doubt that Philadelphia has some great hospitals, but Cleveland will surpass any/all HOSPITALS in Philadelphia. As far as RESEARCH, this is maybe where Philadelphia comes out ahead. There is a huge difference (read some of the above posts) between the two, and I think that's exactly what you're failing to realize.
Please read this response from HockeyMac18 as he pretty well sums everything up...
Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyMac18
I think people are confusing medical care/one's access to good hospitals with academic/industry medical/biotechnology/pharmaceutical research. I hear people say "city A is better than city B in healthcare" a lot, and this distinction is rarely made. There is certainly a difference in the two (although it is possible for the two to be connected).
In the cast of these two cities, I can see the Cleveland Clinic and University Hospitals giving the edge to Cleveland in regards to which city has better top healthcare facilities/hospitals. I wouldn't go so far as to say that this means that Cleavland on the whole has better hospitals than Philadelphia on the whole...but I do think when looking at the top hospitals, Cleveland does take the edge. As someone who has worked at the Cleveland Clinic and University Hospitals in the past on various projects, the prestige and renowned rankings that both receive regularly was apparent. Philly is no slouch when it comes to having quality hospitals, though.
Now, in regards to medical research and overall biotechnology/pharmaceutical presence, Philadelphia has the upper hand (especially in the Industry sector). Cleveland has some decent academic research (specifically with Case Western), but it's really not that close. I think when people see the words "healthcare" they think it's all one homogenous thing...while in some ways it can be, in many more ways it is not.
For instance, I technically work in the Hospital at Stanford University, but I can assure you we do not work on anything related to healthcare that people receive at the hospital. Nor will any of research actually do much for healthcare directly (at least, not for a very long time), and none of our funding comes from the hospital.
While the quality of a healthcare facility and the care it provides can be linked with R&D academic/industry research being conducted in a region, it is often the case that they are quite separate. There is no intrinsic connection between the two.
Now if I'm not mistaken (and no offense to this Summersm343) I think it is you that looks like an idiot. You cannot combine the two forms of medicine. Health Care is Health Care. Research is Research. Both of them do not create one form. Both are completely separate disciplines. And btw, you didn't even have a response to what he said. The point is no one is disputing Philly's hospitals. It's just that Cleveland will always be better. At least you have the research department though.
The links worked fine. I think maybe you just don't wanna see it.
There is no doubt that Philadelphia has some great hospitals, but Cleveland will surpass any/all HOSPITALS in Philadelphia. As far as RESEARCH, this is maybe where Philadelphia comes out ahead. There is a huge difference (read some of the above posts) between the two, and I think that's exactly what you're failing to realize.
Please read this response from HockeyMac18 as he pretty well sums everything up...
Now if I'm not mistaken (and no offense to this Summersm343) I think it is you that looks like an idiot. You cannot combine the two forms of medicine. Health Care is Health Care. Research is Research. Both of them do not create one form. Both are completely separate disciplines. And btw, you didn't even have a response to what he said. The point is no one is disputing Philly's hospitals. It's just that Cleveland will always be better. At least you have the research department though.
No, actually when he posted it last night it was not working, and I have since been sleeping/ at work. Sorry I cannot respond at all hours of the day.
As I said before I never claimed that Penn Medicine was better than Cleveland Clinic. To claim that Cleveland is a better medical city than Philadelphia is just down right false. Philly has better hospitals overall after the match up between Penn Medicine and Cleveland Clinic, as I proved, Philly has 20 nationally ranked hospitals, Cleveland has 10. Philly has far better medical research. Philly has more prestigious medical companies (Independence Blue Cross, AstraZeneca, etc.), Philly has better medical schools.
Why if Cleveland is such a good medical city, does he have no other argument except to put Cleveland Clinic up against Penn Medicine? You can't compare one Hospital to one Hospital and claim it is a victory. It's just downright hilarious.
There is no doubt that Philadelphia has some great hospitals, but Cleveland will surpass any/all HOSPITALS in Philadelphia. As far as RESEARCH, this is maybe where Philadelphia comes out ahead. There is a huge difference (read some of the above posts) between the two, and I think that's exactly what you're failing to realize.
I'm just not sure how you come to that conclusion. Yes, Cleveland Clinic is a superb, world-renown institution that comes out better against Philadelphia's top-ranking medical center, but it is important to consider all high-performing institutions in the entire metro area to really guage the breadth of quality healthcare availability.
Only 7 cities in the US (based on US News methodology) have over 20 high-performing hospitals in their metro areas, giving them distinct clusters of top-quality healthcare:
New York
Los Angeles
Chicago
Boston
Detroit
Washington, DC
Philadelphia
Cleveland has a total of 11 "high-performing" hospitals in its region; Philadelphia has 21.
In essence, several posters are arguing that one powerhouse institution is greater than the sum of the high-performing hospitals in Philadelphia, which would be an erroneous claim.
From an objective point of view, there is really is the only way to base an overall conclusion as to better offerings (as far as rankings are concerned), and that is to quantify the number of ranking specialties:
Cleveland - All Institutions
- 27 total national-level performing specialties
- 51 high-performing specialties
Both cities are very comparable as far as quality of living goes ... Both Cleveland & Philly are well endowed with the arts, dynamic city neighborhoods and spacious suburbs. Philly is a larger city than Cleveland, and is in much closer proximity to New York City - an important factor to remember.
Philadelphia is most assuredly more expensive than Cleveland - largely due to it's location closer to New York City.
Cleveland is very urban, sophisticated and is also a very beautiful city - I enjoy it's setting on the scenic shores of Lake Erie, which I consider to be a major PLUS for Cleveland. The city districts and neighborhoods of Cleveland are urbane, friendly and diverse. Finding a gorgeous apartment in one of CLE'S many urban districts in the $400 to $600 range are abundant.
Here's just one example from Craigslist - a decent sized apartment in my former neighborhood of "Edgewater", just 5 minutes west of burgeoning Downtown Cleveland and within 5 minutes walking distance to Edgewater Beach.
Cleveland easily trumps Philly regarding healthcare due to the presence of the world renowned Cleveland Clinic & University Hospitals of Cleveland. Our county operated hospital system known as "MetroHealth" is also widely acclaimed for it's superior healthcare services.
I love Philadelphia, it's a fantastic city - however, I feel you'll discover a comparable level of urban charm and cultural endowments in Cleveland at much lower costs .
Oh, two more Cleveland attributes -
The second largest performing arts venue / theatre district in the world - this would be glittering "PLAYHOUSE SQUARE"
"One Perfect Mile" - Cleveland's amazing "University Circle" district - One square mile with the highest concentration of world renowned museums, education, musical venues and healthcare facilities in the entire world!
AWESOME!!! Two thumbs up!! I'll have to make that one of my places to visit. I absolutely LOVE the creative & performing arts as well as the museums and art galleries.
That data doesn't relate to Per Capita, though. So I would guess the metro areas with the "best" hospitals would also be those with the "most" hospitals.. I.e. NY, LA, CHI, BOS...
Seeing as Philly metro is 5.9 mill with 33 total national-level high performers and 81 high performers
and Cleveland metro is 2.1 mill with 27 total national-level high performers and 51 high performers
SO overall Philly wins the totals, but Cleveland is insanely better when looking at "per capita" in metro area, which, for QOL seems to be what the OP is intersted in.
Anyways, I think healthcare is arguable but less important lifestyle issue. For daily checkups there are tons of great places and for specialties I'd go anywhere to get the problem fixed.
In other news, I am so much more about the arts than anything else in a City. For me, personally, I'd pick Cleveland because of its astounding arts scene, both artist pioneers and respected institutions, which is incredibly accessible. Though, I have never been to Philadelphia and would love love to go there someday soon. I think the cities are more alike than people think, and Cleve could learn a lot with what they've done there. I have a friend in grad school there, maybe its time for a visit!
Cleveland blows Philadelphia out of the water as far as COL goes.
Both cities compare nicely in the healthcare and fine culture departments (the latter on a per capita basis).
Philadelphia wins in all other aspects, but then again, comparing a city the size of Cleveland with one the size of Philadelphia doesn't make much sense. Rochester, Buffalo, Pittsburgh, Cincinnati, and St. Louis are more direct peers (of these, I know Cleveland is well ahead of Buffalo, somewhat ahead of Rochester, and somewhat behind Pittsburgh [never been to Cincy or STL so I don't want to make assumptions]).
But both Philadelphia and Cleveland had a long way to fall. Still, Philadelphia began emerging from the ashes well before Cleveland. Nonetheless, I think the Cleve is starting to show some promise. I wasn't terribly impressed when I visited a couple years ago, but it definitely has potential. I wish it the best.
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The point is no one is disputing Philly's hospitals. It's just that Cleveland will always be better. At least you have the research department though. 
