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Are tacos al pastor(which are common in Mexico, especially Mexico City) authentic Mexican food? They were the result of Lebanese immigrants in the 1920s to Mexico cooking meat off a spit similar to shwarmas--and they didn't exist until some immigrants bastardized some other style in their new country.
Same deal with banh mi's (Vietnamese sandwiches) - they are are street food in Vietnam made with rice flour baguettes, which were a regional interpretation of the bread that French colonialists ate as a staple. They use a radish/carrot pickle and local veggies and condiments that are distinctly Vietnamese, and indeed, now people will guage how "authentic" a banh mi is relative to what you'd get in Vietnam or a Vietnamese neighborhood abroad... although it itself is a fusion of French and Vietnamese cuisine.
Really? Show me the Jewish delis in the Jewish Brooklyn neighborhoods. Where are all these delis?
You have the same access to Google search that I have.
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You'll find like 2 delis in neighborhoods that easily have 500,000 Jews. They don't eat that stuff.
Jews are not a singular, monolithic people with identical tastes
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In contrast, I bet you I can find dozens of delis in suburban Indianapolis. No Orthodox Jews in those parts. Probably barely any Jews whatsoever.
Like I said, you have the same access to Google I have. Go find me the dozens of kosher delis in Indianapolis.
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That's not how Kosher certification works. It's everything from the hours of operation, to who handles the food.
And there would be no cheese in a Kosher deli, LOL. Strict Kosher means no dairy anywhere! Period!
I'm well aware of how Kosher certification works; my ex fiance's dad was a hazzan and rabbi who did kosher certifications for the KSA in NYC, Pughkeepsie and Albany. I didn't say anything about there being cheese in a kosher deli, I just stated that there is NOTHING that isn't kosher about a sandwich (you said that a kosher deli doesn't sell things that a deli usually sells, when a deli usually sells meats, breads, and condiments, none of which are not necessarily kosher by nature), and then listed two types of sandwiches that could be kosher.
FTR, you can buy both meats and cheeses in certified kosher markets, many of which also have a deli. They won't make you a meat & cheese sandwich, but you could buy both items there.
Same deal with banh mi's (Vietnamese sandwiches) - they are are street food in Vietnam made with rice flour baguettes, which were a regional interpretation of the bread that French colonialists ate as a staple. They use a radish/carrot pickle and local veggies and condiments that are distinctly Vietnamese, and indeed, now people will guage how "authentic" a banh mi is relative to what you'd get in Vietnam or a Vietnamese neighborhood abroad... although it itself is a fusion of French and Vietnamese cuisine.
Yeah, and I haven't been to Vietnam yet(hopefully going soon, though), so I don't know how the Vietnamese immigrant version of bahn mi sandwiches that I've had on the West Coast differs from what I'd find in Vietnam itself in terms of ingredients or style. But all in all, when I eat I bahn mi--it's almost always being served in a place owned, operated, and patronized by Vietnamese immigrants or 2nd/3rd generation Vietnamese-Americans.
Likewise if I go into one of my favorite Mexican taqueria and decide to order a burrito al pastor instead of tacos al pastor--in a place owned, operate, and mostly patronized by Mexican immigrants or Mexican-Americans, I'm still eating a distinctly Mexican food style. People can call a burrito, Mexican-American if it makes them feel any better, since popular American burrito styles are different from Northern Mexican burritos and burritos themselves aren't popular street food in most of Mexico--however all the same, it is a style that has it's roots firmly in Mexico. Eating things in rolled tortillas actually goes all the way back to the Aztecs according to some Spanish accounts from the 16th Century.
I can't believe we're still debating this, but deli food isn't authentic kosher Jewish food! I know this first-hand.
Again, observant jews rarely eat anything that falls under the "deli" format (pastrami sandwiches, knishes, etc.) This is basically "secular early 20th century Jewish American soul food" and is most popular today outside of observant areas.
That's why delis are rare in Brooklyn and common in Anywheresville, USA; Brooklyn is mostly observant Jews, and they don't eat this stuff!
Here's a list of NYC kosher establishments, according to one kosher authority. It isn't a complete list, but it gives a good representation of the types of certified kosher restaurants. You will notice that most restaurants are exactly as I described (serving Mediterranean foods, such as falafel, kibbe, Israel-style chicken schnitzels, etc.) and "deli" food is extremely rare.
You are 50 times more likely to find kosher sushi than a kosher deli. It isn't authentic Jewish food.
Take a look at the Brooklyn restaurants; there are hundreds! I see a grand total of three delis in the entire borough. Mill Basin Deli and Jay & Lloyds are located in the middle of an Italian-American and heavily Catholic area, and I guarantee that its customer base is not Jewish. The third, Empress Deli, is Russian, serving stuff like pelmeni; it is nothing like a "normal" deli with big sandwiches and the like.
I like all these foods, but my point is that they aren't good barometers of ethnic cuisine.
If you want to compare Jewish food, why not compare the food that Jewish people actually eat?
Same goes with Mexican food or whatever. Mexicans don't eat burritos. Doesn't mean that burritos aren't good, but why you choose a food that doesn't even exist in Mexico?
Also, off on this one. Mexico is a huge country. Burritos are fairly common and more or less indigenous to parts of Northern Mexico. Same holds for your red sauce talk--tomato-based sauces are not predominant in all of Italy, but are definitely common within some regions of Italy. The things are done differently (though that changes from shop to shop as it does from country to country), but blanket statements of no burritos in Mexico and no red sauce in Italy are inaccurate.
By who? Until a few years ago, most people here didn't even know what a Fudruckers was. I've never heard anyone refer to Fudruckers as a "good" burger. Unfortunately, I HAVE heard Five Guys mentioned a few times, but generally by the same people who will tell you that the Olive Garden is good Italian food.
The primary difference I've noticed between East and West coast burgers is an emphasis on the burger (East) or toppings (West).
The "pub burger" still reigns supreme in Boston. There's an emphasis on a thick burger (preferably rolled ground beef- not patties), good bread and simple basic toppings (a good cheese, maybe bacon and ketchup). It's not uncommon for a burger to be advertise that it's made with a mix of "ground tenderloin, ribeye, and sirloin" (or some other combo).
While out West, it seems that the "best" burgers have smaller patties (still good beef) and a wider variety of toppings. I was amazed at how almost every good burger place I've been to in SF and LA has burgers that come with everything under the sun piled on top.
In Boston, most people like a burger that eats almost like a really tender steak. Char-Grilled, and absolutely 8 ounces or bigger. Many people would say that throwing avacado, peppers, sauteed mushrooms, salsa, etc. on a burger is nuts.
Having had both styles plenty, I like both. Which I choose depends on what mood I'm in. In the summer, I like a thinner burger topped with things like salsa and guacamole. It has a "fresh" taste that you just don't get with the pub burger. On the other hand, there's nothing like a thick burger cooked medium-rare topped with gourmet cheese and a fresh bun to warm you up in the winter.
Boston's also getting on board with more creative toppings. Still different from out West, though. The other day, I went to a burger joint and had a "Portagee" Burger. It was a 1/2 lb burger (cooked perfectly) topped with a Chourico patty, roasted red pepper, fresh mozzarella and a tomato and garlic aioli. Freaking awesome.
It's not a matter of "better" or "worse." It's simply a matter of different styles. Not far off from Deep Dish Pizza vs. NY Style.
I see what you're saying, but it really just depends where you go. I haven 't been to Boston, but have been to NYC a number of times. Of course West coast and East coast burger joints have your basic pub burger. My favorite burger I've ever had is at original Joe's in San Francisco. Boudin Italian Bastone baguette, grilled chuck mix with onions added to the patty. Cheese or no cheese. Its hands down the best burger I've ever had.
However, for your smaller burger joints(not pubs), we do tend to add on more toppings. Typical burger is 1/3 or 1/2 a pound. That's typical for most California burgers. The thinner patties you speak of kind of remind of of In-N-Out. I do love those once in a while, but its a fast food burger, not your typical restaurant or pub burger.
But yes, toppings like avocado, maybe some grilled chilies or jalapenos make me a happy camper.
This being said, I've never been impressed with the quality of the burger patties on burgers I've had in NYC. I feel like every burger I've had out there has either been lousy or fair at best.
How are the Jewish deli staples inauthentic? That's like calling East Coast Italian food(which basically derived from Neapolitan and Sicilian Italian cuisine)--and is plenty different from what you eat in most of Italy---inauthentic. No, it's authentic to the immigrant culture. Cusines are always evolving and transforming over time as people immigrate and adapt to new locations.
Much of what is found in Jewish delis in America has it's roots in the Central European/Eastern European Ashkenazi culture. Matzoh ball soup, bagels, and smoked meats like pastrami came out of the Jewish ghettos of Europe. In general though the Jewish communities had food that was similar to their gentile neighbors wherever they were. Blintzes and borscht were popular among both Orthodox and Catholic Slavs in Poland, Russia, and Ukraine. Cured salmon lox comes from Scandanavia before it was popularized in America by Jewish immigrants in New York. Sephardic Jews ate food similar to wherever they ended up--in Morocco they ate couscous and dishes with artichokes--and so on. The food varied from their gentile neighbors depending on what was kosher and what they had access to.
Schnitzel is from Austria originally and popular among the whole region. Kibbe is popular among Muslim Arabs and falafel is originally Egyptian and came from the Coptic Chistians--both are popular around the Middle East and aren't specifically Jewish by any means. There's been Jewish delis in America serving food longer than there was such a thing as "Isreali food". There's nothing more authentically "Jewish" about falafels than there is about pastrami.
Good post! But kibbi is popular among all Arabs, not just Muslim. Most people I know that make it are Arab Christians. Ironically I don't know a single Jew that even knows what kibbi is. They all know what falafel is because Israel adopted it from the Palestinians, but most seem lost as to true Middle Eastern food. They know street food like falafel and shawarma, but will hardly know what shishbarak, knanafe, or maqluba are.
Good post! But kibbi is popular among all Arabs, not just Muslim. Most people I know that make it are Arab Christians. Ironically I don't know a single Jew that even knows what kibbi is. They all know what falafel is because Israel adopted it from the Palestinians, but most seem lost as to true Middle Eastern food. They know street food like falafel and shawarma, but will hardly know what shishbarak, knanafe, or maqluba are.
The muslims shop at the same markets as the jews. This one is quite popular and always slam packed. http://kissenafarms.com/
The jewish restaurants most definitely serve kibbeh, particularly the israeli/middle eastern/bukharian places which are numerous.
Last edited by grapico; 01-12-2014 at 08:29 PM..
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