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I am just about ready to move to the 'northwest,' despite the recession. We've narrowed it down to Portland, OR or Victoria, BC as our top picks. I miss the city. I miss the ocean. I miss the good food you get close to the sea and to great agriculture. I miss a bit of cosmopolitanism, diversity, creative young people, etc. I miss the greenery, the water, sailing and rowing. I live in Colorado now and when I say these things most people give me that pitying look as if I just told them I communicate with martians (and I do live/work in Denver/Boulder, not in the 'burbs) or somehow can't realize that Colorado is just the best place on this earth. (Most people seem to have moved here from the midwest or NYC so perhaps for them it's true).
My wife is agreeable to our plans, but she does like the sun. In the 90s I lived in San Fran for a short time and thought I might eventually settle there, maybe in Oakland. (This was the time when Oakland was promoting itself as an alternative to living in SF). Since then, I've thought the Bay Area is too populous and sprawling; the housing costs too high; and crime and education an issue all over California.
Does anyone think Oakland is worth a second look? (Doubt we can afford SF - we'd like to start a family).
We like living in older neighborhoods, cycling, urban agriculture, etc. Enjoy live music. We're not super-urban/yuppie types nor will we be rich, nor is Berkeley for me. I would be looking for a job in urban design or something related, the non-profit world or maybe small business, hopefully related in some way to sustainability.
If you can go to Canada, how about Vancouver? It's a neat enough city (though a little boring outside of the West End) but very quiet and relaxed and feels a LOT more laid back than San Francisco. Expensive though but so is Victoria I would imagine. I guess the weather can suck in Vancouver though.
Oakland's nice areas are pretty great and a very good alternative to SF. It's quieter, sunnier, and cheaper, but there are still a ton of restaurants and things to do. If you are raising kids though you might not want to deal with the Oakland public schools though.
I've never been to Portland so I dunno how it stacks up (one of these days I'll go there) but I always imagined it feels like a much smaller town than the Bay Area for better or worse, and I guess it gets pretty warm in the summer?
Personally, I can't stand Portland. I love Seattle and the Pac NW, but my experience with Portland makes me cringe when anyone tries to compare it with Oakland. Yes, both cities have some grit and are a haven for alternative/indy/artsy types of people, but the similarities pretty much end there.
I'm not gonna waste my time bashing a city I just don't care for, but Oakland and Portland don't really belong in the same discussion- both are so different
I am just about ready to move to the 'northwest,' despite the recession. We've narrowed it down to Portland, OR or Victoria, BC as our top picks. I miss the city. I miss the ocean. I miss the good food you get close to the sea and to great agriculture. I miss a bit of cosmopolitanism, diversity, creative young people, etc. I miss the greenery, the water, sailing and rowing. I live in Colorado now and when I say these things most people give me that pitying look as if I just told them I communicate with martians (and I do live/work in Denver/Boulder, not in the 'burbs) or somehow can't realize that Colorado is just the best place on this earth. (Most people seem to have moved here from the midwest or NYC so perhaps for them it's true).
My wife is agreeable to our plans, but she does like the sun. In the 90s I lived in San Fran for a short time and thought I might eventually settle there, maybe in Oakland. (This was the time when Oakland was promoting itself as an alternative to living in SF). Since then, I've thought the Bay Area is too populous and sprawling; the housing costs too high; and crime and education an issue all over California.
Does anyone think Oakland is worth a second look? (Doubt we can afford SF - we'd like to start a family).
We like living in older neighborhoods, cycling, urban agriculture, etc. Enjoy live music. We're not super-urban/yuppie types nor will we be rich, nor is Berkeley for me. I would be looking for a job in urban design or something related, the non-profit world or maybe small business, hopefully related in some way to sustainability.
I am just about ready to move to the 'northwest,' despite the recession. We've narrowed it down to Portland, OR or Victoria, BC as our top picks. I miss the city. I miss the ocean. I miss the good food you get close to the sea and to great agriculture. I miss a bit of cosmopolitanism, diversity, creative young people, etc. I miss the greenery, the water, sailing and rowing. I live in Colorado now and when I say these things most people give me that pitying look as if I just told them I communicate with martians (and I do live/work in Denver/Boulder, not in the 'burbs) or somehow can't realize that Colorado is just the best place on this earth. (Most people seem to have moved here from the midwest or NYC so perhaps for them it's true).
My wife is agreeable to our plans, but she does like the sun. In the 90s I lived in San Fran for a short time and thought I might eventually settle there, maybe in Oakland. (This was the time when Oakland was promoting itself as an alternative to living in SF). Since then, I've thought the Bay Area is too populous and sprawling; the housing costs too high; and crime and education an issue all over California.
Does anyone think Oakland is worth a second look? (Doubt we can afford SF - we'd like to start a family).
We like living in older neighborhoods, cycling, urban agriculture, etc. Enjoy live music. We're not super-urban/yuppie types nor will we be rich, nor is Berkeley for me. I would be looking for a job in urban design or something related, the non-profit world or maybe small business, hopefully related in some way to sustainability.
Caveat: I know nothing about Portland so my focus is on the Oakland portion of your post.
Biking: Oakland is doing a great job adding bike paths and bike-friendly transportation, and has recently been recognized as a bike-friendly community. There are other plans in place to add to this (like the bike path from Lake Merritt to the Bay, big project that just got started).
Older neighborhoods: Oakland's pretty great for this, but I'd also throw Alameda into your consideration. Beaches, ocean, and lots of cool old buildings. More expensive, though. I think my favorite street in Oakland for architecture and proximity to stuff to do is Trestle Glen near Lakeshore, check out Google Street View for Trestle Glen & Haddon. There's also Tudor-style buildings and old/restored art deco in random 'hoods throughout the city.
Family: Lots of stuff for kids to do, but as other people said, the public schools are not great at the high school level, though there are some great elementary and middle schools.
Sailing/rowing: There's Lake sailing (Lake Merritt) and Bay sailing (Jack London, Alameda) in the Oakland vicinity. There's also a rowing team based out of Lake Merritt.
Crime: is definitely an issue in Oakland, but where you live makes a huuuuge difference. Even if you're in a high crime neighborhood, you can find little pockets where crime is non-existent, and vice versa. What you're comfortable with is pretty subjective, I feel very little personal risk in my neighborhood but someone accustomed to very low crime might feel uncomfortable.
Don't ya have to be Canadian to live in Canada, eh?
Victoria is one of the nicest small cities around.
You'd be looking at two rivers in Portland, not the ocean.
Thanks for the comments so far. I guess to add a little more detail:
Cost of living is of some importance to us. My wife is an artist, so we are more like a 1 and 1/4 income family than a 2 income family (and neither of us intend to work as much as possible to buy an expensive house, especially once we have a family).
Although I lived in places like Miami growing up, we are looking for a relatively safe area - I know Oakland's reputation ...
I'm also looking for somewhere that draws creative people or just people willing to live to their own beat. I may look to juggle a part time job and a small company and would like a network of creative people around, and I feel more comfortable in pre-war type of nieghborhoods than the 'burbs.
Portland seemed great as far as having nice, livable, affordable neighborhoods; good schools; creative and friendly people; and nice cycling, recreation, music, etc. While not that diverse, as a coastal city it definitely seems to be different than Denver. I had a good time every time I visited. So I was willing to compromise that it's not on the ocean, and the weather isn't perfect. Seattle is nice too, definitely better for watersports. It seemed a bit big for us, but mainly it's housing cost that would be an issue.
I was wondering in Oakland might have a similar feel to Portland, but with more diversity, better weather, and the ocean next door?
(And Victoria is just beautiful, and I am Canadian, so why not?)
Well if cost is an issue then the Bay Area is definitely the most expensive area on the West Coast. Must be nice for your wife to not work full time, maybe get her to go out and get a job, hehe.
Anyway sounds like you aren't really sold on Oakland but you like Portland. Most people in the Bay Area know that Oakland has some of the worst areas in the Bay Area in terms of crime, but also has some of the best urban neighborhoods which don't have the crime of the bad parts of Oakland. Someplace like Rockridge, crime really isn't an issue, I live there and I feel safer there than in San Francisco. In any case there are dozens and dozens of other suburbs in the Bay Area, not just SF and Oakland.
The weather is nice in Oakland because it's sunnier and a bit warmer than SF during the day, but it's still chilly at night and in the morning during the summer. But the coastal part of the Bay Area honestly is pretty unpleasant most of the year--it's usually windy, very chilly and cloudy, and the water is freezing. There are a few days a year where it's perfect beach weather but the water will still be cold. The beaches here are wild in a kind of nice way but honestly unless you're a hardcore surfer with a wetsuit, I would not move here to be close to the ocean.
OK, Oakland is not in the northwest, so may I make another suggestion? Santa Barbara.
The SF Bay is a different experience, especially on the East Bay. Sailing is good, but it's not quite as pretty as the waters up there. The Gulf Islands and the San Juans are beautiful.
What Santa Barbara has is a lot of activities for adults such as adult learning, hiking, boating, great restaurants, great weather, proximity to a big city for airports, etc...
Oakland has more artists per capita than any other U.S. City
Oakland has great neighborhoods all over the city.
Gangs, make up less than 1 percent of the population.
But if you lived in Miami, you know how a major city feels like.
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