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A black guy from Norcal trying to school native Angelenos about the Mexican culture out here, now that's something I'm having difficulty grasping.
I see why your username is "the Instigator" lol. My comment was irrespective of "Mexican culture", it's more about enclave culture (in relation to Boyle Heights). Some enclaves have more traffic from outside of the neighborhood and some don't... some will react to seeing an outsider (or someone they think is an outsider) and some won't. I was expecting Boyle Heights to be in the latter category given that it's a mile outside of Downtown LA but from my experience of actually walking down E. Cesar Chavez I thought wrong.
IDK if you're contending Boyle Heights being an ethnic enclave or not but this pretty clearly makes the case that it is:
The absence of a black population was self-evident.
I see why your username is "the Instigator" lol. My comment was irrespective of "Mexican culture", it's more about enclave culture (in relation to Boyle Heights). Some enclaves have more traffic from outside of the neighborhood and some don't... some will react to seeing an outsider (or someone they think is an outsider) and some won't. I was expecting Boyle Heights to be in the latter category given that it's a mile outside of Downtown LA but from my experience of actually walking down E. Cesar Chavez I thought wrong.
IDK if you're contending Boyle Heights being an ethnic enclave or not but this pretty clearly makes the case that it is:
The absence of a black population was self-evident.
The average Hispanic person in LA MSA (which is 44.4% Hispanic) lives in a census tract that is 63.1% Hispanic (18.7% differential from mean). While it's not great, compare that to other metros like Chicago (20.7% Hisapnic, average Hispanic lives in a tract that is 46.9% Hispanic for a 25.9% differential) or New York (22.9%, average Hispanic lives in a tract that is 43.7% differential for a 20.8% differential), its a whole lot better when you control for population size. The average Hispanic in LA does NOT live in a Hispanic enclave, since 2000, the average tract that a Hispanic in LA lives in has become more diverse unlike NYC or Chicago where it has increased.
In fact, the average Hispanic tract in North Hollywood mimics the census tract I grew up in (63.1% Hispanic, 17.7% White, 11.4% Asian, 7.2% Black). Again, I'm not going to pretend that its some sort of kumbaya story, but to use a place like Boyle Heights or East LA as a primary example of the really awful race relations in LA is akin to using an area like Ross in Marin County as an example of White segregation in the Bay Area. It doesn't quite tell the story of the statistical mean of the average Hispanic in LA, which is increasingly, a diverse story.
The average Black person in the LA MSA lives in a tract that is:
43.7% Hispanic
27.6% Black
18.4% White
9.6% Asian
While there are still are (shrinking) neighborhoods like Ladera Heights or View Park-Windsor Hills that are still 90%+ Black, the vast majority of LA County Black people (statistically) live in an area like the above.
Now, the Black population in LA MSA is decreasing, the vast majority of Black people in the LA MSA are moving to the San Bernardino-Riverside MSA, where the average Black person lives in a tract that looks like this:
Now, it's awful if you are trying to find a majority black area to live in because you aren't going to find any (aside from the above neighborhoods in LA), but it isn't some sort of "everyone is suspicious of me" story either. Generally, in poorer areas, if you aren't from the area no MATTER what race you are, you will generate some sort of suspicion. I find this to be universally true no matter where you live, even in the suburbs where the neighbors stare at you when you're walking out at night. Unless you're looking for problems, you aren't really going to find any.
BTW: Asians in SF-Oakland MSA are more segregated than they are in LA, and again, a lot of it is due to sheer population size. When calculating segregation indices, that's always a factor
Asian statistical tract in SF-Oakland MSA
39.0% Asian
34.7% White
18.0% Hispanic
8.0% Black
Asian statistical tract in LA MSA
33.8% Hispanic
31.9% Asian
28.4% White
8.9% Black
I want to have a good conversation (and not have trolling by people) so please let me know some counter points so we can all learn something
From what I recall....and I say this based on my partner & his family...(family from El Paso/Jaurez, and he came up in Sacramento CA)...that old school Pachuco/Chicano culture..which was sort of hybrid thing...borrowing a lot of US pop culture things... lasted into the 1970s at least (when my partner was coming up), and that oldies musical style (i called it "low rider music") lasted into the 1980s (when I lived in Califas). But they deffo made the distinction btw their style and "The Nationals" (what they called Mexicans from Mexico).
This was all a long time ago. But you sort of saw this updating of Chicano style in that move "Mi Vida Loca"....
Interesting. But even the shaved-head gang-banging Chicanos in 2013 still listen to the low-rider oldies. They may not dress in the dress-pants, suspenders and pachuco-style clothing anymore, but they still listen to the oldies and they still sample the music from oldies to make Chicano Rap/Hip-Hop tracks.
The average Hispanic person in LA MSA (which is 44.4% Hispanic) lives in a census tract that is 63.1% Hispanic (18.7% differential from mean). While it's not great, compare that to other metros like Chicago (20.7% Hisapnic, average Hispanic lives in a tract that is 46.9% Hispanic for a 25.9% differential) or New York (22.9%, average Hispanic lives in a tract that is 43.7% differential for a 20.8% differential), its a whole lot better when you control for population size. The average Hispanic in LA does NOT live in a Hispanic enclave, since 2000, the average tract that a Hispanic in LA lives in has become more diverse unlike NYC or Chicago where it has increased.
In fact, the average Hispanic tract in North Hollywood mimics the census tract I grew up in (63.1% Hispanic, 17.7% White, 11.4% Asian, 7.2% Black). Again, I'm not going to pretend that its some sort of kumbaya story, but to use a place like Boyle Heights or East LA as a primary example of the really awful race relations in LA is akin to using an area like Ross in Marin County as an example of White segregation in the Bay Area. It doesn't quite tell the story of the statistical mean of the average Hispanic in LA, which is increasingly, a diverse story.
Fair enough, though the Ross comparison isn't quite an equivalent comparison considering one's a suburb in a suburban county and the other's an urban neighborhood in the heart of the nation's second city.
Quote:
Generally, in poorer areas, if you aren't from the area no MATTER what race you are, you will generate some sort of suspicion. I find this to be universally true no matter where you live, even in the suburbs where the neighbors stare at you when you're walking out at night. Unless you're looking for problems, you aren't really going to find any.
I agree with that in regard to LA but in the Bay that's been the opposite of my experience... Outside of very isolated neighborhoods (ex. Marin City) I attract zero attention in poor neighborhoods up here. The hoods up here tend to be pretty laid back.
I agree with that in regard to LA but in the Bay that's been the opposite of my experience... Outside of very isolated neighborhoods (ex. Marin City) I attract zero attention in poor neighborhoods up here. The hoods up here tend to be pretty laid back.
I mean it depends on the area. I'm generally familiar with LA and don't look like I'm wandering off trying to start problems, so I don't get the states. In other cities, I look a bit confused because I'm more guarded of my surroundings due to lack of familiarity, so I get looked at with a bit more suspicion. If I was a bit more familiar, it would reflect more in my body language.
I was in SFs Tenderloin the last time I was in the Bay Area at 1 AM dragging a luggage bag down the street toward my friends place. I got stared at way too much. Do I blame em? Nah
I'm not black so I don't know what it means to you so I may be reaching with that explanation, but it's the one I think of when it happens to me.
I don't doubt that there is more segregation here than the Bay (statistics prove it), but it's not nearly as bad as the media says it with exaggeration that LA is all out hostile. Other statistics regarding mixed race people and mixed race couples prove that one.
Interesting. But even the shaved-head gang-banging Chicanos in 2013 still listen to the low-rider oldies. They may not dress in the dress-pants, suspenders and pachuco-style clothing anymore, but they still listen to the oldies and they still sample the music from oldies to make Chicano Rap/Hip-Hop tracks.
L.A. Mexicans are pretty racist. Take it from someone who's been to both. I'm disgusted by it. I love L.A. but I hate the way my people here act. Makes no sense. We've both been through the same **** and we go on killing each other. If anything, we both got one bad habit of killing our own.
And you think a notoriously segregated city like Chicago is any better? There's no Inglewood (50% Hispanic, 44% black) in Chicagoland. No Compton. No South Los Angeles. Chicago is far less integrated, and based on the city's crime stats, it isn't any better off for it.
there's no compton or inglewood but you have
Chicago Heights
Waukegan
North Chicago
Joliet
Bolingbrook
East Chicago
Hammond
Maywood
Humboldt park
Rogers Park
Back of the yards
.....need I continue?...
EDIT: I really didn't even get the point of this post. You think just b/c compton and inglewood have blacks and hispanics living with eachother that its all fine and dandy?
Last edited by mas23; 03-13-2013 at 12:12 PM..
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