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What are King of Prussia and Cherry Hill, chopped liver?
KofP is the second-biggest edge city in the Northeast after Tysons, and it's home to the nation's third-largest shopping mall (I think it's still #1 in terms of total selling space because the two above it have indoor amusement parks and [in the case of the one in New Jersey] ski slopes, but the one outside Minneapolis-St.Paul expanded recently so may have ecilipsed it). KofP is also the Philadelphia region's second-biggest employment center after Center City itself.
I'm not voicing approval of this style of development, just wanted to correct your impression of the Philadelphia area, which also abounds in really nice, walkable, American Small Town-ish siuburbs.
KOP is similar to Burlington MA outside Boston. But this is not what he was referring too.
He was more or less referring to car centric exurban, master planned cities with skylines... like Tysons and Reston. The type of cities where last mile transit is nearly impossible. Those don't really exist north and east of DC. MetroPark could be one actually.
KOP and Burlington MA are nothing like Tysons and Reston, for better or worse.
IMO DC feels the biggest by far. It's now the 3rd largest metro-area (CSA-basis) in the country with ~10M and feels like it. The city itself doesn't have the tall buildings of BOS/PHL, but what it does have is miles and miles of continuous 5-10 story development.
Driving in from Dulles you pass through Reston, Tysons, and McLean, all of which have sizable skylines of their own. They are 10-20 miles outside the city, but still have a hyper-frequent metro rail connecting them together and to the city. Closer afield you have Arlington, Bethesda, and Silver Spring. Boston and Philly have nothing like this.
The continuous sprawl both going west and north of the city (25 miles to Brambleton and Gaithersburg) is something you don't see in the other two.
DC is now technically a megacity (and became one before Chicago). I wouldn't be surprised for it to grow until at least 12-13 million before the growth cools off.
Outside of Arlington and Alexandria, I think most of the suburbs in Virginia feel pretty disconnected from DC. I used to live in Reston Town Center and it definitely doesn't feel like it's part of a megacity, metro access or not. Going to DC from there was a hike, whether it was spending nearly an hour on the metro or driving. Accessing Tysons also was a chore when I lived in Columbia Heights. Living in Rosslyn I felt very connected to DC.
Philly feels like a far bigger city than DC and Boston to me.
KOP is similar to Burlington MA outside Boston. But this is not what he was referring too.
He was more or less referring to car centric exurban, master planned cities with skylines... like Tysons and Reston. The type of cities where last mile transit is nearly impossible. Those don't really exist north and east of DC. MetroPark could be one actually.
KOP and Burlington MA are nothing like Tysons and Reston, for better or worse.
Reston is master-planned. Tysons isn't. (And, oddly enough, shopping centers proved to be the nuclei around which both it and KoP grew: Tysons Corner Center where I-495 and Routes 7 and 123 cross in VA, and King of Prussia Plaza where I-76, US 202 and the Pennsylvania Turnpike cross in suburban Philadelphia. I also believe that both centers opened in the same year: 1965. Correction: KoP Plaza opened in 1963, Tysons Corner Center five years later.)
Tysons may have taller buildings, but in terms of their development, it and KoP are siblings.
Last edited by MarketStEl; 10-23-2023 at 09:59 AM..
Of course Boston and Philly don’t have Tysons, Reston etc. neither does NYC really. Boston, Philly, NYC don’t have sprawly office park exurbs. While you might think they are tall and look pretty, they are impractical.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarketStEl
Reston is master-planned. Tysons isn't. (And, oddly enough, shopping centers proved to be the nuclei around which both it and KoP grew: Tysons Corner Center where I-495 and Routes 7 and 123 cross in VA, and King of Prussia Plaza where I-76, US 202 and the Pennsylvania Turnpike cross in suburban Philadelphia. I also believe that both centers opened in the same year: 1965. Correction: KoP Plaza opened in 1963, Tysons Corner Center five years later.)
Tysons may have taller buildings, but in terms of their development, it and KoP are siblings.
Tysons is much closer to DC than KOP is to Philly. But the biggest thing is the frequent metro rail connection. Not having to think about when a train is and easily hop on to Arlington or DC Proper is what makes Tysons feel much more like an extension of DC than KOP is of Philly.
Obviously, I might be biased, but I am genuinely shocked that some people think DC feels larger than Philly. As someone who frequently travels to DC for work and leisure, I'm always taken aback by how much more of a mid-size city DC feels like than a large city like Philly or Chicago. There's also just zero comparison for the huge urban mass of West/North/South/Center City Philly. DC doesn't come close to that.
Tysons is much closer to DC than KOP is to Philly. But the biggest thing is the frequent metro rail connection. Not having to think about when a train is and easily hop on to Arlington or DC Proper is what makes Tysons feel much more like an extension of DC than KOP is of Philly.
The only way to KOP is by road.
Last mile transit in Philly/KOP>>>> Last mile transit in Tysons/Reston to DC
Obviously, I might be biased, but I am genuinely shocked that some people think DC feels larger than Philly. As someone who frequently travels to DC for work and leisure, I'm always taken aback by how much more of a mid-size city DC feels like than a large city like Philly or Chicago. There's also just zero comparison for the huge urban mass of West/North/South/Center City Philly. DC doesn't come close to that.
Maybe their comparing metros and not cities. DC is also more spread out and they might consider most of the city proper and Rosslyn, Pentagon City etc to be the equivalent to CC Philadelphia. That might give the illusion that DC feels bigger.
Location: That star on your map in the middle of the East Coast, DMV
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesJay64
Outside of Arlington and Alexandria, I think most of the suburbs in Virginia feel pretty disconnected from DC. I used to live in Reston Town Center and it definitely doesn't feel like it's part of a megacity, metro access or not. Going to DC from there was a hike, whether it was spending nearly an hour on the metro or driving. Accessing Tysons also was a chore when I lived in Columbia Heights. Living in Rosslyn I felt very connected to DC.
Philly feels like a far bigger city than DC and Boston to me.
Not sure how long ago that was for you, but Reston definitely is a major/relevant and connected node of the DC metro area at this point.
Construction just topped out on a 40 story "skycraper" at Reston Metro station and is the tallest residential building in the DC area. That's 21 miles from DC. Neither Philadelphia nor Boston have suburbs 20 plus miles from their city as their tallest residential building so it just creates a more expansive feel for the DC region when you have not only this but 5 or 6 other major suburban "skyline" and TOD centers surrounded by rail transit and connected by major freeways. I think people are conflicting whether the metro areas sizes feel larger, vs the urban core of each city honestly.
Location: That star on your map in the middle of the East Coast, DMV
8,128 posts, read 7,560,868 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bridge12
Obviously, I might be biased, but I am genuinely shocked that some people think DC feels larger than Philly. As someone who frequently travels to DC for work and leisure, I'm always taken aback by how much more of a mid-size city DC feels like than a large city like Philly or Chicago. There's also just zero comparison for the huge urban mass of West/North/South/Center City Philly. DC doesn't come close to that.
No I don't think people are saying DC feels like the largest urban city proper. It's basically a comparison of the urban scale of each region. In which Philly has a great case. However DC as you exit the city proper keeps pumping at a higher rate than Philly suburbs and Boston's after a while.
Last edited by the resident09; 10-23-2023 at 05:04 PM..
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