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Location: Baghdad by the Bay (San Francisco, California)
3,530 posts, read 5,133,216 times
Reputation: 3145
Quote:
Originally Posted by cali3448893
The best cities for radio stations for me is Dallas, LA, Chicago and NYC. Miami might be the worst...
LA and Chicago are both big and diverse. Dallas and Miami to me, seem terrible. I have worked in the industry and have many friends in the industry in Houston, which is a profitable market, but not really a good one for programming. None would happily move to Dallas or Miami as a lateral move. They are markets in about the same shape as Houston's in terms of creativity and influence in programming. LA and Chicago are different stories.
I blame the conglomerates like Clear Channel for this. They have homogenized markets that are too isolated to have much competition, like Houston. In The Bay Area, for instance, there's a radius of about 100 miles with many distinct cities, with geographical and cultural differences. Radio is the most local of media. So, each of these place spawn stations that both reflect their local ties and blend into the greater region. The result is more niche programming, greater competition and more variety.
The only genre that isn't represented in San Francisco is Country, which I am fine with. I think maybe Stockton has a station that can be heard in the East Bay, though. I'm not sure.
LA and Chicago are both big and diverse. Dallas and Miami to me, seem terrible. I have worked in the industry and have many friends in the industry in Houston, which is a profitable market, but not really a good one for programming. None would happily move to Dallas or Miami as a lateral move. They are markets in about the same shape as Houston's in terms of creativity and influence in programming. LA and Chicago are different stories.
Im sorry, but I dont agree at all. LA's programing is anything but diverse. Take it from the guy who grew up and lived there for 25 years.
In LA, if you love top 40 and regional Mexican, youre in luck because thats most of whats there. Even the stations that dont label themselves as a top 40 format end up playing most of the same garbage (98.7 for example). There is KROQ for alternative. I used to listen to Kevin and Bean in the morning and they were awesome. However, they play the same songs on a loop. You have youre usual adult lite rock station (KOST) and they had one country station there when I last stayed there. I did enjoy Latino 96.3 for my raggaeton fix, but they started throwing in hip-hop and I stopped listening. There was a Christian talk station and a Christian music station, but I never listened really. I never got over losing KNAC which left LA long ago. They also got rid of the Indie alternative station in favor of another regional Mexican station.
Chicago isnt much better. I didnt listen to the radio as much there because I took public transit to work, but they got rid of the one rock station they had (Q101). I suppose the radio lineup is better than LA, but I wouldnt call it stellar.
Ill take Dallas' (or even Houston's) stations over both.
Location: Baghdad by the Bay (San Francisco, California)
3,530 posts, read 5,133,216 times
Reputation: 3145
Quote:
Originally Posted by justme02
Im sorry, but I dont agree at all. LA's programing is anything but diverse. Take it from the guy who grew up and lived there for 25 years.
In LA, if you love top 40 and regional Mexican, youre in luck because thats most of whats there. Even the stations that dont label themselves as a top 40 format end up playing most of the same garbage (98.7 for example). There is KROQ for alternative. I used to listen to Kevin and Bean in the morning and they were awesome. However, they play the same songs on a loop. You have youre usual adult lite rock station (KOST) and they had one country station there when I last stayed there. I did enjoy Latino 96.3 for my raggaeton fix, but they started throwing in hip-hop and I stopped listening. There was a Christian talk station and a Christian music station, but I never listened really. I never got over losing KNAC which left LA long ago. They also got rid of the Indie alternative station in favor of another regional Mexican station.
Chicago isnt much better. I didnt listen to the radio as much there because I took public transit to work, but they got rid of the one rock station they had (Q101). I suppose the radio lineup is better than LA, but I wouldnt call it stellar.
Ill take Dallas' (or even Houston's) stations over both.
I can understand your perspective and it's easy to dump on programming. The best radio programmers in the country are in LA, though. Fold in the influences from the south, which mainly affect OC, sure, but it nonetheless creates a varied market.
Your KROQ reference is a good example. It's one of a handful originators of that format and led its popularity across the country. But 91X, a border blaster in Tijuana can be clearly heard up into southern LA and OC and has had a major competitive effect on KROQ's programming. Trickle-down effects and sometimes trickle-up effects reach programming on KCRW and KYSR, from a programmer's point of view. All are vying for larger pieces of the rapidly changing audience (and with the exception of KCRW, the rapidly tightening advertiser spend).
So you have a situation in LA where you have KROQ (CBS) battling 91X (Mexican) and influencing programming for KCRW (independent) and KYSR (Clear Channel), and all are vying for pieces of the same audience. The audiences aren't exactly the same, but there is a lot of crossover. Add in tertiary competitors (limited, but some crossover appeal and thus, segmentation of the audience), like KIIS (Clear Channel) KAMP and KCBS (Both CBS) and you have a really interesting mix that generates a lot of competition, primarily between CBS and Clear Channel, but extending outward.
Houston or Dallas would really only have one or perhaps two options each to fit into this niche and each would tend toward more reactionary programming, rather than genre-defining programming like KROQ.
I can understand your perspective and it's easy to dump on programming. The best radio programmers in the country are in LA, though. Fold in the influences from the south, which mainly affect OC, sure, but it nonetheless creates a varied market.
Your KROQ reference is a good example. It's one of a handful originators of that format and led its popularity across the country. But 91X, a border blaster in Tijuana can be clearly heard up into southern LA and OC and has had a major competitive effect on KROQ's programming. Trickle-down effects and sometimes trickle-up effects reach programming on KCRW and KYSR, from a programmer's point of view. All are vying for larger pieces of the rapidly changing audience (and with the exception of KCRW, the rapidly tightening advertiser spend).
So you have a situation in LA where you have KROQ (CBS) battling 91X (Mexican) and influencing programming for KCRW (independent) and KYSR (Clear Channel), and all are vying for pieces of the same audience. The audiences aren't exactly the same, but there is a lot of crossover. Add in tertiary competitors (limited, but some crossover appeal and thus, segmentation of the audience), like KIIS (Clear Channel) KAMP and KCBS (Both CBS) and you have a really interesting mix that generates a lot of competition, primarily between CBS and Clear Channel, but extending outward.
Houston or Dallas would really only have one or perhaps two options each to fit into this niche and each would tend toward more reactionary programming, rather than genre-defining programming like KROQ.
Yeah, I do agree that LA has some of the best radio personalities. The shows on the radio stations were the best, you just have to put up with the same bad music on a loop to listen to them. I do miss the KROQ morning show, nothing elsewhere really like it. There are a few good radio personalities in Dallas (as offensive and politically incorrect as he is, I like Russ Martin on KEGL).
But if your talking about music played, I still prefer what we have here. Using the Dallas market as comparison, Clear Channel only owns 6 stations (in Houston they own 7). There is still a lot of competition outside Clear Channel even if they have a big presence. I know, Cumulus, Radio One, and even Fun Asia, a local company, operates a Bollywood and South Asia/Desi programing here (104.9).
All in all, I pay more attention to the music. For whatever reason, you get better rock stations in the smaller markets (meaning they play harder rock and metal).
Location: Baghdad by the Bay (San Francisco, California)
3,530 posts, read 5,133,216 times
Reputation: 3145
Quote:
Originally Posted by justme02
Yeah, I do agree that LA has some of the best radio personalities. The shows on the radio stations were the best, you just have to put up with the same bad music on a loop to listen to them. I do miss the KROQ morning show, nothing elsewhere really like it. There are a few good radio personalities in Dallas (as offensive and politically incorrect as he is, I like Russ Martin on KEGL).
But if your talking about music played, I still prefer what we have here. Using the Dallas market as comparison, Clear Channel only owns 6 stations (in Houston they own 7). There is still a lot of competition outside Clear Channel even if they have a big presence. I know, Cumulus, Radio One, and even Fun Asia, a local company, operates a Bollywood and South Asia/Desi programing here (104.9).
All in all, I pay more attention to the music. For whatever reason, you get better rock stations in the smaller markets (meaning they play harder rock and metal).
The stations Clear Channel owns in Houston and Dallas are the real heavy hitters, though, and they dominate the market. There isn't much incentive to innovate, because they have such a lock on the market.
Small markets aren't as restricted by competition or even the constraints of being economically viable. So, sometimes, the jocks are actually bringing CDs from home and playing them. That's a very different proposition from programming for hundreds of thousands of listeners against a few other stations fighting for the same listeners.
Houston and Dallas are more monopolized. LA and Chicago have the benefit of having more diverse ownership of their stations with wider variety of programming, in general.
Doesn't this just basically line up with population info? Or am I missing something here?
Neither of my two metros align with TV Markets.
In Raleigh, the TV market is Raleigh/Durham/Fayetteville. Raleigh and Durham are part of the same CSA but Fayetteville is not (about 50 miles south of Raleigh).
In Miami, The TV Market splits the MSA with Miami/Ft Lauderdale in one market and West Palm Beach in another.
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