Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Again, though, we need context for cost of living - here are some interesting stats for Seattle:
Between 2009 and 2019:
- average home price in Seattle increased by nearly 90% (430K to 760K)
- rent increased by 45%
- median income increased by 15%
This at least partly explains why the homeless crisis has gotten so much worse during that time and why so many people have been displaced from Seattle to cheaper suburbs.
Mathematcially Thats only a ~76% price increase.
Home price increases have been noticably higher in Boston (327,000 Q4 2009) to 653k now, that a 100% increase.
Rents? IDk its astronmical.
The average Mattapan house sold for $170,000 in 2009. The median home value there now is $466,000
Its fair air to say Seattle has seen a less drastic price shift relative to Boston.
The price increase in Boston has been very unsustainable. Over the past 5 years weve seen a slowdown in population growth, a pretty consistent rise in shootings, a leveling off of high levels of overdoses, increased homelessness and the nation's worst traffic.
Personaly I think the wealthy were so far away from Boston 2000 (median income was a mere 39k then, or 58k in 2020 dollars) that their introduction into the city is something I dont think city services/government were set up for or ready for...
Home price increases have been noticably higher in Boston (327,000 Q4 2009) to 653k now, that a 100% increase.
Rents? IDk its astronmical.
The average Mattapan house sold for $170,000 in 2009. The median home value there now is $466,000
Its fair air to say Seattle has seen a less drastic price shift relative to Boston.
My bad - my numbers were off and significantly understated the increase in housing costs in Seattle. I'll try and vet sources a little better before posting them.
The article linked below from the Seattle Times says Seattle had an increase of 112% in home costs just between 2012 and 2018 (and it has only increased since then), and 107% in King County overall.
The interesting thing is that this increase has been very uneven across the city. In South Seattle, where the most vulnerable population lives, housing prices have nearly tripled during that time:
"In the first three months of 2012, the cost of a typical home in Southwest Seattle, which includes Sodo and Beacon Hill, was $222,000. In the first few months of this year? $661,000. In Southeast Seattle, which includes Rainier Valley and Mount Baker, home costs have grown from $275,000 to $650,000 during that span. In all, home prices nearly tripled in some southern neighborhoods since the bottom of the recession, while home values in the pricier central and northern parts of the city roughly doubled."
My bad - my numbers were off and significantly understated the increase in housing costs in Seattle. I'll try and vet sources a little better before posting them.
The article linked below from the Seattle Times says Seattle had an increase of 112% in home costs just between 2012 and 2018 (and it has only increased since then), and 107% in King County overall.
The interesting thing is that this increase has been very uneven across the city. In South Seattle, where the most vulnerable population lives, housing prices have nearly tripled during that time:
"In the first three months of 2012, the cost of a typical home in Southwest Seattle, which includes Sodo and Beacon Hill, was $222,000. In the first few months of this year? $661,000. In Southeast Seattle, which includes Rainier Valley and Mount Baker, home costs have grown from $275,000 to $650,000 during that span. In all, home prices nearly tripled in some southern neighborhoods since the bottom of the recession, while home values in the pricier central and northern parts of the city roughly doubled."
According to this Seattle housing prices seem to have increased at a faster rate than Boston's, although both are clearly terrible.
This article reports a much higher home value in Seattle than I’ve seen virtually anywhere else, that’s weird. Also this is 2018 prices. Every source I’ve seen out Seattle 2020 median home value at 745-765k. Are you citing sales, list price or value?
This article reports a much higher home value in Seattle than I’ve seen virtually anywhere else, that’s weird. Also this is 2018 prices. Every source I’ve seen out Seattle 2020 median home value at 745-765k. Are you citing sales, list price or value?
The article says this is sales price based on the MLS, which is a legit source. It seems like there's a lot of bad information out there - Mike Rosenberg with the Seattle Times is a good reporter, I trust his numbers.
Also, according to this article the neighboring counties have also increased a lot, but still remain much, much lower - average for Pierce is $350K, Kitsap is $340K, and Snohomish is $475K (King is $690K, although Seattle really skews it upward). You can see why so many people who want to stay in the region are leaving Seattle. As an example, Tacoma is actually an awesome city less than 30 minutes away and it's basically half the price. The commute to Seattle is horrendous though.
You mentioned population decrease in Boston - interestingly, in Seattle (the city proper) it's the opposite. Population has grown a ton during all this but largely from out-of-state tech workers hired by Amazon and similar tech companies. People are not moving from other parts of the region to Seattle. Shootings have remained about the same, but drug overdoses and homelessness has gone through the roof. Traffic congestion has also nearly doubled and is ranked in some lists as being in the top 3-4 worst in the country. The racial disparities have gotten much worse as well.
The article says this is sales price based on the MLS, which is very legit source. It seems like there's a lot of bad information out there - Mike Rosenberg with the Seattle Times is a good reporter, I trust his numbers.
Also, according to this article the neighboring counties have also increased a lot, but still remain much, much lower - average for Pierce is $350K, Kitsap is $340K, and Snohomish is $475K (King is $690K, although Seattle really skews it upward). You can see why so many people who want to stay in the region are leaving Seattle. As an example, Tacoma is actually an awesome city less than 30 minutes away and it's basically half the price.
You mentioned population decrease in Boston - interestingly, in Seattle (the city proper) it's the opposite. Population has grown a ton but largely from out-of-state tech workers hired by Amazon and similar tech companies. People are not moving from other parts of the region to Seattle. Shootings have remained about the same, but drug overdoses and homelessness has gone through the roof. Traffic congestion has also nearly doubled and is ranked in some lists as being in the top 3-4 worst in the country.
Population hasn't decreased its just the increase has slown because a ton of people born in MA leave and immigration has slowed a bit in the area. Last year MA as a state lost like 50k domestic (American born) residents. It only grew slightly (8.5k people) because of immigration. I don't have Boston are specific numbers but the statewide trends usually follow Boston's-especially in this regard.
Although Boston itself isn't becoming more foreign born (holding steady at ~28% since 2010), the immediate suburbs around it are. The entire MSA including the NH counties is 19.2% foreign born. NH counties are pretty remote and are 5% or less foreign born so they really drag things down... Inside of 495 its very safe to say over 20% of the population is foreign born. Inside 128 its probably approaching 25%.
Population hasn't decreased its just the increase has slown because a ton of people born in MA leave and immigration has slowed a bit in the area. Last year MA as a state lost like 50k domestic (American born) residents. It only grew slightly (8.5k people) because of immigration. I don't have Boston are specific numbers but the statewide trends usually follow Boston's-especially in this regard.
Although Boston itself isn't becoming more foreign born (holding steady at ~28% since 2010), the immediate suburbs around it are. The entire MSA including the NH counties is 19.2% foreign born. NH counties are pretty remote and are 5% or less foreign born so they really drag things down... Inside of 495 its very safe to say over 20% of the population is foreign born. Inside 128 its probably approaching 25%.
I was surprised to see that almost half of King County's growth since 2010 is made up of people born outside of the United States. King County is now at 24% foreign born - which is well above the City of Seattle proper. Interesting, King County has one of the largest Ethiopian populations in the country, as well as a large Somalian population.
Adjacent counties are all much lower for foreign born, though - Kitsap at 7%, Pierce at 10%, and Snohomish at 14%. Pierce's foreign born population is primarily from Latin America, as opposed to from Asia for King County.
Some interesting charts about where the King County foreign-born people come from:
Personaly I think the wealthy were so far away from Boston 2000 (median income was a mere 39k then, or 58k in 2020 dollars) that their introduction into the city is something I dont think city services/government were set up for or ready for...
This stick out and is especially true.
Living in northwestern suburbs of Boston at that time - in my siloed, limited worldview - The only wealthy areas of the city that I really knew about were Back Bay, Beacon Hill, and maybe South End. Obviously, as I've gotten older, lived elsewhere, and then moved back, it's almost unfathomable how we've reached this point. Allston was an alternative h***hole. The Fenway area was nothing other than cheap housing for students. Seaport was a functioning port with like two restaurants. Mission Hill wasn't considered safe. East Boston was bad news. Southie was just becoming more popular, but was still very blue collar, relatively dangerous. Etc. etc.
You have affluence in all squares of Cambridge and Somerville. You extreme affluence in Seaport (1.2k psqft!?!?!). You have big time new money in Southie. South End's prominence is more pronounced. JP has pockets of legitimate affluence, as does Roslindale. Eastie waterfront is a big deal. Fenway has boomed and commands top dollar. Homes in Brighton and Allston are now in the millions. Shoot, I know couples with combined incomes of $400k buying in Dorchester.
The story for Seattle is quite similar, no doubt. I'm just less familiar with that story, as by the time I lived in Bellevue, it was already boomtown. But what makes Boston unique is that most other Northern cities haven't seen quite the same shift, or not to the same degree. There is gentrification in legacy cities, and then there is what has happened in Boston over the last decade.
Living in northwestern suburbs of Boston at that time - in my siloed, limited worldview - The only wealthy areas of the city that I really knew about were Back Bay, Beacon Hill, and maybe South End. Obviously, as I've gotten older, lived elsewhere, and then moved back, it's almost unfathomable how we've reached this point. Allston was an alternative h***hole. The Fenway area was nothing other than cheap housing for students. Seaport was a functioning port with like two restaurants. Mission Hill wasn't considered safe. East Boston was bad news. Southie was just becoming more popular, but was still very blue collar, relatively dangerous. Etc. etc.
You have affluence in all squares of Cambridge and Somerville. You extreme affluence in Seaport (1.2k psqft!?!?!). You have big time new money in Southie. South End's prominence is more pronounced. JP has pockets of legitimate affluence, as does Roslindale. Eastie waterfront is a big deal. Fenway has boomed and commands top dollar. Homes in Brighton and Allston are now in the millions. Shoot, I know couples with combined incomes of $400k buying in Dorchester.
The story for Seattle is quite similar, no doubt. I'm just less familiar with that story, as by the time I lived in Bellevue, it was already boomtown. But what makes Boston unique is that most other Northern cities haven't seen quite the same shift, or not to the same degree. There is gentrification in legacy cities, and then there is what has happened in Boston over the last decade.
The vibe in 2000 was very much humble working families, lots of modest/broke college students, lowkey granola type liberal hipsters in the large nonprofit:grassroots sector, working class immigrants and drinking it still prevalent Irish American community , impoverished black Americans and Puerto Ricans in census tracts that we’re virtually 99% black/Latino, and a wealthy upper crust up and around Beacon Hill/Back Bay. Crime was more evenly distributed throughout the city and the idea of a truly wealthy Boston wasn’t realistic. At the time Boston was a pretty healthy city in growth mode but it wasn’t the jewel it became.
The prevalence of wealthy folks, East Asian students, tech, yuppies and the Carribean population have all increased greatly.
Dorchester, 2005
Last edited by BostonBornMassMade; 09-21-2020 at 03:22 PM..
I was surprised to see that almost half of King County's growth since 2010 is made up of people born outside of the United States. King County is now at 24% foreign born - which is well above the City of Seattle proper. Interesting, King County has one of the largest Ethiopian populations in the country, as well as a large Somalian population.
Adjacent counties are all much lower for foreign born, though - Kitsap at 7%, Pierce at 10%, and Snohomish at 14%. Pierce's foreign born population is primarily from Latin America, as opposed to from Asia for King County.
Some interesting charts about where the King County foreign-born people come from:
China and the Dominican republic trade slots all the time for #1.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
