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Yes, New England has a much richer history than California because New England has been more heavily settled for a considerably longer period of time. However, the plurality of people who reside in present-day New England, especially in the states of Connecticut, Massachusetts and Rhode Island, are the children, grandchildren or great-grandchildren of Irish, Italian, Polish and/or Portuguese immigrants who do not possess any affinity for the rich history of New England and, therefore, are highly disconnected from the traditional New England cultural experience that is widely recognized and celebrated throughout the United States.
For example, the minister of my Congregational church in Southern California, who has never resided in New England, has a much deeper connection to New England and much greater affinity for traditional New England culture and heritage than my third-generation Italian-American father from Providence, Rhode Island, who has lived in New England all of his life. Most people like my father roll their eyes or turn their noses up at “Yankees” because, historically, this group of people was responsible for the discrimination and marginalization of Italian and other Roman Catholic immigrant groups throughout southern New England.
Although Southern California has a more dynamic and — one could argue — more transient population than New England, the culture of New England is such that, if you are born outside of the traditional New England Yankee experience, then you can never actually participate in it. Unfortunately, New Englanders have been practicing this cultural exclusivity for 400 years as of Monday, December 21 (Forefathers’ Landing Day). And even though this ideal of exclusivity among the regional population has significantly waned over the years, the remnants of it still exist and have been passed down to and embodied by more recent immigrant groups, such as the Irish and Italians. With different population groups, the cultural manifestation or representation of this exclusivity is slightly different, but the thought process is consistent.
The culture of California and, in particular, Los Angeles is such that you can be born outside of the traditional California experience — or even the traditional American experience, for that matter — and still fully identify with it, embody it and participate in it. Now, this is often the result of many different factors, but I would say the openness and non-conformity of people in Southern California play a major role in this sociocultural phenomenon, as well as the fact that most people who live in present-day Southern California are the children or grandchildren of people that originated all over the country and world. The cultural openness of Southern California is one the reasons why seemingly “new age” Evangelical Protestant Christian movements, such as Pentecostalism and non-denominationalism, for example, flourished in the region during the 20th century. In my opinion, this dynamic or force is one of the biggest cultural differences between New England and Southern California and is only evident to people who have lived full-time in both regions.
You always have some do the best understanding of Southern New England cultural nuances, man. Very articulate and very accurate. Bravo.
You always have some do the best understanding of Southern New England cultural nuances, man. Very articulate and very accurate. Bravo.
Eh. Bert’s analyses always seem 40-50 years behind the times. Maybe things are different in Providence, but I don’t think any of the Irish or Italian people I grew up with in Boston would describe themselves as “marginalized by Yankee culture”.
Eh. Bert’s analyses always seem 40-50 years behind the times. Maybe things are different in Providence, but I don’t think any of the Irish or Italian people I grew up with in Boston would describe themselves as “marginalized by Yankee culture”.
Your missing the point. They’re still not really within traditional New England culture. They may have power roles but they’re not traditional New England no-they’re not responsibekbforbthenourtianisn nor the “home rule” tho s that make up the bedrock of New England government and culture.
He’s actually addressed what you’re talking about here:
And even though this ideal of exclusivity among the regional population has significantly waned over the years, the remnants of it still exist and have been passed down to and embodied by more recent immigrant groups, such as the Irish and Italians. With different population groups, the cultural manifestation or representation of this exclusivity is slightly different, but the thought process is consistent.
Why are you focusing on that one small part, essentially everything else here is extremely accurate in comparison to southern CA was accurate. It was an excellent post.
Your missing the point. They’re still not really within traditional New England culture. They may have power roles but they’re not traditional New England no-they’re not responsibekbforbthenourtianisn nor the “home rule” tho s that make up the bedrock of New England government and culture.
He’s actually addressed what you’re talking about here:
And even though this ideal of exclusivity among the regional population has significantly waned over the years, the remnants of it still exist and have been passed down to and embodied by more recent immigrant groups, such as the Irish and Italians. With different population groups, the cultural manifestation or representation of this exclusivity is slightly different, but the thought process is consistent.
Why are you focusing on that one small part, essentially everything else here is extremely accurate in comparison to southern CA was accurate. It was an excellent post.
During the latter 1/2 of the 20th Century the Catholic Church may have been the most powerful institution in Soouthern New England. The Rhode Island Democratic Party still is wishy washy in Abortion because of Catholics.
Sure they didn’t change local government structure from the 1600s but legally California basically functions the same way as. It did in 1850, when the demographics were radically different.
Irishness is what people think of when they think of Boston. The Irish fully adopted things like Baked beans from the English settler class. Greek Pizza/Roast Beef joints is the standard across all of Northeastern Massachusetts.
While New England may be more traditional it’s not Yankee dominated anymore.
During the latter 1/2 of the 20th Century the Catholic Church may have been the most powerful institution in Soouthern New England. The Rhode Island Democratic Party still is wishy washy in Abortion because of Catholics.
Sure they didn’t change local government structure from the 1600s but legally California basically functions the same way as. It did in 1850, when the demographics were radically different.
Irishness is what people think of when they think of Boston. The Irish fully adopted things like Baked beans from the English settler class. Greek Pizza/Roast Beef joints is the standard across all of Northeastern Massachusetts.
While New England may be more traditional it’s not Yankee dominated anymore.
As I said....
he addressed that and said Irish and Italians propagate this against the more recent arrivals (Jamaicans Guatemalans Chinese Puerto Ricans Cape Verdeans Haitians Jamaicans Cambodians etc) this is well documented.
In reality baked beans are an English American thing that I do not associate with Irish. Boston is not the same culture as New England-not even close. Who was the last Irish Governor of Mass?
I wouldn’t say Boston is representative of the entirety of New England culture.
he addressed that and said Irish and Italians propagate this against the more recent arrivals (Jamaicans Guatemalans Chinese Puerto Ricans Cape Verdeans Haitians Jamaicans Cambodians etc) this is well documented.
In reality baked beans are an English American thing that I do not associate with Irish. Boston is not the same culture as New England-not even close. Who was the last Irish Governor of Mass?
I wouldn’t say Boston is representative of the entirety of New England culture.
Jane Swift, but elected Bill Weld. However before Baker, Ed J King was the last Yankee Governor of Massachusetts elected in 1978. With Romney, Weld and Patrick not even being from Massachusetts.
Kerry nor Warren were from Massachusetts, from Colorado and Oklahoma respectively. So for a while none of the 3 major statewide offices were actually held by a Bay Stater.
Not saying it isn’t true it’s harder to become a New Englander than a Californian it’s not that extreme of a difference. Like Quebec or something
Maybe Bert will come back to elaborate, but I think your pulling points from his post that he himself didn’t actually make. Like he mentions Irish and Italian people as “more recent immigrant groups” and talks extensively about religion. But it’s been years and years since there was really a problem between Catholics and Protestants in Southern New England. Religious denomination really just isn’t something that most people feel so strongly about anymore.
However, the plurality of people who reside in present-day New England, especially in the states of Connecticut, Massachusetts and Rhode Island, are the children, grandchildren or great-grandchildren of Irish, Italian, Polish and/or Portuguese immigrants who do not possess any affinity for the rich history of New England and, therefore, are highly disconnected from the traditional New England cultural experience that is widely recognized and celebrated throughout the United States.
^This statement really just isn’t true. As the great-grandchild of Irish migrants myself, I don’t think that a plurality of people like me feel disconnected from “the traditional New England cultural experience”. In part because to varying degrees Irish, Italian, Portuguese, Greek, and to a lesser extent Polish cultures have all had some impact on the culture of Southern New England. It’s hard to feel like you don’t belong as a Greek/Italian/Portuguese American when every town has a HOP that probably serves gyros and offers linguica as a topping.
Eh. Bert’s analyses always seem 40-50 years behind the times. Maybe things are different in Providence, but I don’t think any of the Irish or Italian people I grew up with in Boston would describe themselves as “marginalized by Yankee culture”.
Try putting low income housing in a top-10 Boston suburb and get back to me with how that goes. It’s a very socioeconomically segregated place. The error in the analysis is that in 2020, it’s no longer particularly tied to ‘Yankee’. It’s tied the white collar professional and it’s largely a meritocracy. That is far more multicultural than it was in 1970. Ernie Moniz of Fall River was Secretary of Energy. He was born in the Azores. His PhD is from Stanford. Metro Boston tech and biotech has had massive inward migration of the best and the brightest for 50+ years. That’s the power elite in 2020, not Mayflower descendants.
My sister’s debutant ball was in 1975. It was already dying off then.
Try putting low income housing in a top-10 Boston suburb and get back to me with how that goes. It’s a very socioeconomically segregated place. The error in the analysis is that in 2020, it’s no longer particularly tied to ‘Yankee’. It’s tied the white collar professional and it’s largely a meritocracy. That is far more multicultural than it was in 1970. Ernie Moniz of Fall River was Secretary of Energy. He was born in the Azores. His PhD is from Stanford. Metro Boston tech and biotech has had massive inward migration of the best and the brightest for 50+ years. That’s the power elite in 2020, not Mayflower descendants.
My sister’s debutant ball was in 1975. It was already dying off then.
Try building a rail line to Beverly Hills. Same white collar exclusivity. LA just has a larger working class.
Between these two, SoCal, although New England is beautiful and has great attractions.
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